Supplemental Brake... Necessity or Preference

[JohnnyT]

We seem to have a good number of discussions on the issue of the need for supplemental brakes... Unfortunately many of the discussions are not very productive in terms of giving those who have an open mind and who are genuinely trying to gather information useful information. Nor is there much value in trying to get those that have their minds made up to change or even consider another point of view...

As is often the case when the subject of supplemental brakes comes up some opinions offered are based on their own choices... Which may or many not fit your situation. In some instances these opinions offered are not constructive but lapse into you are wrong and I am right...

Area's to do your own assessment as to need or desirability;

State Law's
Weight of towed vehicle in relation to motorhome
Amount of rear overhang
Rated capacity of motorhome service Brakes
Chassis/Motorhome Manufacturers recommendations
Reduction of braking force required of motorhome service brakes..
Ability to have Break Away braking
Motorhome brake wear
Operational Reliability of the Supplemental Brake

State Law
The reality is that almost all states do have laws requiring supplemental brakes for trailers and most states do not have any stated requirements for supplemental brakes for motor vehicles in tow... However many states do have laws specific to motor vehicles being towed, in some instances those laws require the ability to stop within a specified distance at a specific speed. There are also a number of states that have a weight limitation on the weight that can be towed without a supplemental brake. There are a good number of states that require a supplemental brake system. The link previously posted appears to give an accurate summary of the specific requirements by state.
Towing Laws By State I would review the information in the link provided and reach your own judgment as to the legal requirement...

Rather than any legal requirement or wear issue to the service brakes on the motorhome, the issue I would be considering first is safety margin. I would want to be in compliance with the legal requirements where ever I towed, but my issue is safety margin. I would start with understanding the;

Rated capacity of motorhome service Brakes
Some chassis manufacturers will specify that the use of a supplemental brake is required after some minimal weight usually around 1500 pounds. Other Manufacturers will state that the service brakes are only rated for GVWR not GCWR... So I would consult your owners manual or call the chassis manufacturer.

A supplemental brake ought to lessen the braking force required by the motorhome service brakes. This would be of particular note on long down hill descents since the added braking force will lessen the amount of braking force needed by the motorhome service brakes. Which should lessen the potential for brake fade due to overheating of the brakes. I personally do not put much faith in advertising claims in terms of stopping distances but I have done a bit of non scientific testing to the point that I am certain that when using the same amount of pedal pressure I am able to stop in a shorter distance with the dinghy in tow with the supplemental brake activated than without...

The other issue is that the weight of the towed vehicle will be pushing its full weight on the back of the motorhome which would exacerbate any handling issues during hard braking if the towed vehicle and the motorhome are not in alignment. If the motorhome happened to have a long overhang and the weight of the towed vehicle is any significant percentage of the motorhome the more likely that the weight of the towed vehicle pushing on the back of the motorhome will be a factor relative to handling in a hard braking situation.

One last area...If you decide you want a supplemental brake system... Then pick the one that best maps to your requirements... For those brake systems that have user adjustments invest the time to calibrate your brake so that it will provide the braking force intended. Here is an excellent description of the various Supplemental Brake Systems.

For those that are only interested in having a supplemental system that only provides braking in the event of a break away here is one such system Break Away only option

As you work through the decision process of whether or not making the investment for a supplemental brake system is warranted...There are a myriad of variant opinions... With justifications for supplemental brake system or rationales against... Unfortunately many of the discussions are predicated based on extremes some of which are uncommonly unlikely or have the potential to be avoided; Brake fade, a dinghy that breaks away, an accident where braking ability was a factor or becomes a factor in litigation. Any of which are either rare or unlikely. The odds of any can be reduced by adjusting ones driving strategy or going the route of investing in a suitable supplemental braking system or both... In my case both. In addition our coach is also equipped with a 2 stage engine brake.

The reality is that beyond any legal requirement which is not commonly going to be an issue in terms of enforcement or liability. The issue of brake fade can be avoided by altering driving style to reduce the factors that cause brake fade... Stopping distance can be taken into account by increasing the distance between the vehicle in front and driving a lower speeds. The potential for a break away can be lessoned with preventive care of towing apparatus and the proper use of safety chains/cables. The added braking force of a supplemental brake system can be an added safety margin for those un predictable situations... Its up to each individual to reach their own conclusions.

The one area that is the most difficult take preventative measure for is the weight of the dinghy pushing against the back of the motorhome in a emergency braking situation where the dinghy is not in direct alignment with the motorhome... In those instances where the motorhome has a long overhang will exacerbate the potential problem which will be amplified as the weight of the dinghy increases as a percentage of the motorhome weight.

While I have invested in a supplemental brake system, that is my personal choice... I fully subscribe that the likelihood that the absolute need beyond conformance with legal requirements would fall into the very low percentile... Which is comforting..unless you are in the small percentile group.

JohnnyT Moderator

[CA_Traveler]

taoshum wrote:
I know this will perturb the thread but after a great deal of thought, I've decided that the toad aux braking systems have too many failure modes (I can think of at least 100) that will end up with the toad brakes "on" when I don't want them "on". Instead, I'm going to put my trust in good ole steel tow bars (10,000 lb for a 3500lb Jeep) and heavy duty chains (another 10,000 lb each) so that the toad stays with the MH no matter what happens. I have never seen a thorough study of what could happen when the toad brakes go "on" unexpectedly... but there are many situations where it could cause far more trouble than the small increase in braking power is worth, based on my technical experience. In our case the MH + the toad weighs 1000lb less than the GVWR so the MH brakes are within the OEM design margin plus the 2 stage engine braking keeps the brakes cool.

FWIW, thanks, G.

Yes they can fail to engage or fail to disengage. There have been posts on the disengage failure and it can be expensive.

I prefer the extra power of toad braking even though I've never needed it for stopping.

Personally I have two different ways to determine when the toad brakes are on.
1. The remote that came with the unit.
2. A light on the toad dash that is connected to the brake light. This light is visible in the camera.

[taoshum]

I know this will perturb the thread but after a great deal of thought, I've decided that the toad aux braking systems have too many failure modes (I can think of at least 100) that will end up with the toad brakes "on" when I don't want them "on". Instead, I'm going to put my trust in good ole steel tow bars (10,000 lb for a 3500lb Jeep) and heavy duty chains (another 10,000 lb each) so that the toad stays with the MH no matter what happens. I have never seen a thorough study of what could happen when the toad brakes go "on" unexpectedly... but there are many situations where it could cause far more trouble than the small increase in braking power is worth, based on my technical experience. In our case the MH + the toad weighs 1000lb less than the GVWR so the MH brakes are within the OEM design margin plus the 2 stage engine braking keeps the brakes cool.

FWIW, thanks, G.

[WTD44]

It seems to me that one can't just say you SHOULD have supplimental brakes without some discussion of the facts. If you have a short wheelbase class C with vacumn brakes and want to tow a 4000 + pound toad, by all means YES, you absolutly do need them.

On the other hand, if you have a Class A with a 10,000 lb hitch and with toad weight included you are under your Class A's GVWR (Not GCWV) than I doubt if you need a system.

Certainly, an assesment of driving style and skill should also come into the discussion. IF you run fast, in the hills, and want to always be first up (and down) the hill, no matter what you are drving and towing, you probably should get yourself all the stopping power you can. On the other hand, if you have lots of driving experience and are willing to take it easy, have lots of brakes, a light toad, IMHO you will be OK 99 % of the time. Sure, you may get caught in a bad situation, but that can happen lots of ways besides stoping fast, none of which you can control. There are many ways to crash, most of them beyond your control. If you can't take some risk, you need to think about staying home.

[seraphim]

I appreciate the thread. I'm finishing up a 79 VW Super Beetle that I want tow behind my Class B. I'm new to the towing issue, so I've a lot of research to do.

[driveby]

In the spirit of full information - that state thread omits Canada. If you plan to come up this way be aware BC is one of the few jurisdictions I know about that actually deals with TOADS. - IE over 2000# (if IIRC) and you need 'em. Meaning pretty much any TOAD on the road today will need them to be legal. Now, the odds of you being stopped are practially miniscule, but law wording says so.

[kalynzoo]

I would guess that the decision to use a supplemental brake has allot to do with the type of motorhome/toad combination. I have always owned gas engine MHs. The toad brought the GVCW close to or over the limit. Years ago, with the Holiday Rambler, I was driving down from Oak Glen, a very steep road, and my MH brakes boiled. I was traveling slow, so I was able to safely stop at the curb. So as not to upset the family, I suggested we stop for a long lunch. After that trip I purchased a new dolly with surge brakes. Years later, driving down (South) along the rim of Flaming Gorge, I was truly thankful for the brakes. Now, driving 4 down with as gasser and a Saturn, my story of my lost toad has been posted more than a few times. I am sure that many feel as I do that on most roads East of the Rockies, owners find supplemental brake systems excesses, and another government intrusion in our enjoyment. However, just about anyplace I wish to go requires that I climb and descend the Grapevine, or Baker grade, or Grants Pass. For me, a toad brake is a necessity. Thank you for the opportunity to present just my view.

[bib]

Excellant Johnny
Good Job!!!
Bib:B:)

[macira]

Aside from adding braking power , a supplemental system seems to me to be cheap "anti-lawyer" insurance.

[chuck4788]

I think the warning light on the MH dash provides very important information about the status of the toad brakes. But I encountered a fellow who lost his toad to a fire caused by the toad brakes dragging, he didn't notice soon enough that the red light was on. His solution was to install a buzzer. My next project will be to install a buzzer to a relay that will sound if the toad brake are on and the MH brakes are not.

[howhafner]

spent a week studying a supplemental system. Decided to take my toad out and, at about 40 mph, turned off the motor, hit the brake bedal 3 times and on the 3rd time the pressure on the brake pedal to stop was extreme. Decided to go with the M & G system.

[CA_Traveler]

My experience with supplemental brake failure. I purchased BrakePro early in it's product cycle and it was very prone to false brake activation. To Roadmasters credit they did fix the design problems.

So I installed a light on the toad dash that's connected to the brake light. I can see this light with the rear view camera. And after reading some posts on the general problem of unwanted brake activation I concluded that I would always have an independent method of checking the brake activation and will soon wire up a light on the MH dash. This requirement means that I will not every use any type of system that bypasses activation of the toad brake lights from the toad.

[ReadytoRide]

It appears that most of the auxiliary braking system failures or malfunctions I have read about on here have involved the "brake-in-a-box" like Brake Buddy, etc. Of these, I don't know if any of them also used a remote indicator of toad brake activation.
My braking system is installed in the vehicle and uses a vacuum pump to help provide "power braking" assistance instead of dead pedal. I also have a dashboard light to let me know when the brakes are engaged. I had one occasion when the breakaway cable got pulled around a turn (my fault for not running it correctly,) and the dash light immediately let me know there was a problem. No damage done. The other problem was when I changed MH's and wired the connections wrong. The brakes were activated, and I didn't have the dash light installed yet. Pulled my toad several miles with brakes on. Glazed them over and got them hot, but other than new pads, and some replacement fluid, they were okay. Both occasions, my fault. Other than that my system works great, and I can feel the difference in the braking ability.

[Jpjlauer]

I just spent $760.00 on a brake repair to my tow because my supplemental brake system unit shifted while sitting on the floor of the tow and actuated the brakes for an undetermined amount of time while traveling. The supplemental brake system did not malfunction, it just shifted while sitting on the floor of the tow and started putting pressure on the brakes without actually "activating". I'm going to put something on the dash of my Rig that will notify me if my tow brakes are being activated. But I am now very worried when I tow about the same thing happening again.

Another issue is once while driving down the road at 60 mph the "break-away" switch mal-functioned and locked up my tow brakes. Not a good situation! I no longer hook up the break-away switch.

I like the idea of braking assistence while towing, but I think the current technology has a way to go. I still use mine, but not without a lot of reservation.

[flrvman]

Some systems work well and others do not. Bottom line is, YOU WILL STOP FASTER WITH MOST SYSTEMS. MUCH FASTER. So, you will be safer. You choose.

[red_ranger]

Johnny T
thanks for starting a good discussion. many times i was happy to have my electric brakes on my 1800# tt towed by my 2400# car.

i can't see the same need with my 15000# mh towing a 3000# pickup. i try to anticipate need to slow or stop. i feel i can get better gas mileage by taking my foot off early rather than putting it down later.

that said, i don't know if it would have made a difference if i had been towing last month. on the fl tpk near ft lauderdale the caddy in front of me slowed to 40 and kept it there. maybe he thought i was too close, but i saw the front end of the caddy dive and i hit the brake.everything loose moved forward.