Supplemental Brakes Confession Time

[GreenSalsa]

Hello.

Long time member and have been driving my American Coach Revolution 42T for over 2 years now and LOVE it.

I just upgraded my 2007 Ford Escape (towed it with a two wheel tow dolly) to a 2017 Ford Edge.

I have lusted over flat towing for the past 24+ months, now that I have a vehicle that I can do it with my question is this:

My rig can tow 15,000 lbs. Do I really need a supplemental brake system for a car that has a curb weight of 4,000 lbs? I seriously doubt I will even know it is back there. I am completely confident the rig will stop the car.

What say the crowd? Do I need it or will I be okay with out it?

[Mile_High]

I'll have to check, but I bet my wrangler and full coach cargo still fits within my GVWR.

I would agree with you, probably wrong to assume braking is based on GCVWR.

[EsoxLucius]

Where does one get the idea that towing capacity ratings incorporate stopping ability?

[Bumpyroad]

msmith1199 wrote:

Sully2 wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Don't look for TRAILERS. Look for, or do what I did, ask the State Police, what the requirement is for a "VEHICLE IN TOW".
Then try to remember when you saw any tow truck operator put a supplemental braking system in a car that they were towing. TRAILER requirements are what the people put in the ads to fool people in to buying their braking system. It works, so they keep doing it. msimth1199 is ex-police and he is telling you the truth.
As I mentioned, I contacted most States that I would travel in and never found a single one that required brakes in my toad. I posted the names of the people that I contacted. Here is a typical reply from Florida. NOTE that no weight limit is ever mentioned. Compare this with what BrakeBuddy tries to tell you:
A vehicle towed behind a motor home would be exempt from the braking requirements in Florida statute 316.261 as a drive away, tow away operation. Please contact me if you have any other questions.

Lt. Jeff Frost
Florida Highway Patrol
Public Affairs Officer
Commercial Vehicle Enforcement
2900 Apalachee Parkway, MS 45
850-617-2279
Tallahassee, Florida 32399
www.flhsmv.gov/fhp
Jefffrost@flhsmv.gov

Which is why I went to my state police and inquired. Was told that "the book" says if the vehicle was never DESIGNED to be towed ( and cars ARENT) then no Aux braked are needed. A TRAILER which IS designed to be towed...DOES require braked.

And again, as far as I know there is no state that has a law that says aux brakes are never needed. All the states have a braking performance requirement and if your motorhome and toad can't meet that requirement then yes aux brakes are mandated as it's the only way you'll be able to comply with the law. If your motorhome is a 21 foot Class C and your toad is a Ford F-250 4x4 crew cab long bed truck, then I assure you every state in the land will have a law requiring you to have aux brakes on your toad because you'll never be able to stop that combination with just the brakes on the motorhome.

sully2, did you get that in writing? if not?.
bumpy

[msmith1199]

Sully2 wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Don't look for TRAILERS. Look for, or do what I did, ask the State Police, what the requirement is for a "VEHICLE IN TOW".
Then try to remember when you saw any tow truck operator put a supplemental braking system in a car that they were towing. TRAILER requirements are what the people put in the ads to fool people in to buying their braking system. It works, so they keep doing it. msimth1199 is ex-police and he is telling you the truth.
As I mentioned, I contacted most States that I would travel in and never found a single one that required brakes in my toad. I posted the names of the people that I contacted. Here is a typical reply from Florida. NOTE that no weight limit is ever mentioned. Compare this with what BrakeBuddy tries to tell you:
A vehicle towed behind a motor home would be exempt from the braking requirements in Florida statute 316.261 as a drive away, tow away operation. Please contact me if you have any other questions.

Lt. Jeff Frost
Florida Highway Patrol
Public Affairs Officer
Commercial Vehicle Enforcement
2900 Apalachee Parkway, MS 45
850-617-2279
Tallahassee, Florida 32399
www.flhsmv.gov/fhp
Jefffrost@flhsmv.gov

Which is why I went to my state police and inquired. Was told that "the book" says if the vehicle was never DESIGNED to be towed ( and cars ARENT) then no Aux braked are needed. A TRAILER which IS designed to be towed...DOES require braked.

And again, as far as I know there is no state that has a law that says aux brakes are never needed. All the states have a braking performance requirement and if your motorhome and toad can't meet that requirement then yes aux brakes are mandated as it's the only way you'll be able to comply with the law. If your motorhome is a 21 foot Class C and your toad is a Ford F-250 4x4 crew cab long bed truck, then I assure you every state in the land will have a law requiring you to have aux brakes on your toad because you'll never be able to stop that combination with just the brakes on the motorhome.

[Sully2]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Don't look for TRAILERS. Look for, or do what I did, ask the State Police, what the requirement is for a "VEHICLE IN TOW".
Then try to remember when you saw any tow truck operator put a supplemental braking system in a car that they were towing. TRAILER requirements are what the people put in the ads to fool people in to buying their braking system. It works, so they keep doing it. msimth1199 is ex-police and he is telling you the truth.
As I mentioned, I contacted most States that I would travel in and never found a single one that required brakes in my toad. I posted the names of the people that I contacted. Here is a typical reply from Florida. NOTE that no weight limit is ever mentioned. Compare this with what BrakeBuddy tries to tell you:
A vehicle towed behind a motor home would be exempt from the braking requirements in Florida statute 316.261 as a drive away, tow away operation. Please contact me if you have any other questions.

Lt. Jeff Frost
Florida Highway Patrol
Public Affairs Officer
Commercial Vehicle Enforcement
2900 Apalachee Parkway, MS 45
850-617-2279
Tallahassee, Florida 32399
www.flhsmv.gov/fhp
Jefffrost@flhsmv.gov

Which is why I went to my state police and inquired. Was told that "the book" says if the vehicle was never DESIGNED to be towed ( and cars ARENT) then no Aux braked are needed. A TRAILER which IS designed to be towed...DOES require braked.

[dubdub07]

wallynm wrote:
Ours has failed twice. How did I know. The last time we were leaving Flaming Gorge Bridge and Dam. On the steep grades I could feel that the DP was not slowing down as it normally did. On inspection it had failed and I returned it to the factory for servicing.

Rice wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
So before all the hate starts I have to add the disclaimer here, I'm just telling you what the law is. Brakebuddy and all those others know good and well they are lying on their websites but they do it anyway. I would recommend that if you have a heavy toad or a light motorhome or a combination of the two, that you get aux brakes on your toad. But if you have a heavy DP and a light toad, do what you feel comfortable with.

Thanks for the info about what the laws actually are. It's interesting.

My issue with braking systems is that nobody ever acknowledges that braking systems can and do break or cause problems. So it's never, as a lot of people seem to assert, just a case of "Will it do any good whatsoever?" Instead, the question should be, "Will it do enough good to outweigh the cost and the possible problems it could actually cause?"

Even without a TOAD, there is a lot of fade on the brakes in a DP. I have had some real white knuckle times having to stop quickly and was able to but the fade is more than I would expect.

Also, I can certainly understand the TOAD pushing the coach. I grew up in Denver, lived in Los Alamos, and currently live in the Springs. This means I use my DP to travel all over the Rockies. I felt the Wrangler pushing my coach on 285 dropping into Denver. Immediately bought my Roadmaster brake box. Next time down the pass, I could still feel the Wrangler pushing me. Seems that the air is so thing above 9000ft that the box doesn't work. Hmmmmm. Other than the mountains, the box is nearly useless on the normal setting and it hard on the TOAD on aggressive settings. I certainly do not want my Wrangler trying to pull my coach to a stop.

Laws and physics. I am sure I will get some comments on laws and physics. My science experiment is to take the weight of the coach, add the dinghy, look at the total. The GCWR on my coach is 42,500 lbs. Laws and science say that the manufacturer says my coach will pull and stop that much weight. If you get into an accident, are they going to look at how many pans were loaded and what the weight of each toothpick is? There is also your tanks. All four tanks full (275 gallons) at 8lbs a gallon is 2200 lbs of liquid. That is substantial. Bottom line, as long as you are under the gross weights, the MH is designed to start and stop it.

I do like the brake box for the breakaway feature. And I do use my brake box. Watching and feeling how much it works, not sure about that. I would like to do a 60mph stop with and without the box and see how much difference there is. Could be eye opening. The supp brakes are very expensive, so does the cost outweigh the benefit?

WW

[wallynm]

Ours has failed twice. How did I know. The last time we were leaving Flaming Gorge Bridge and Dam. On the steep grades I could feel that the DP was not slowing down as it normally did. On inspection it had failed and I returned it to the factory for servicing.

Rice wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
So before all the hate starts I have to add the disclaimer here, I'm just telling you what the law is. Brakebuddy and all those others know good and well they are lying on their websites but they do it anyway. I would recommend that if you have a heavy toad or a light motorhome or a combination of the two, that you get aux brakes on your toad. But if you have a heavy DP and a light toad, do what you feel comfortable with.

Thanks for the info about what the laws actually are. It's interesting.

My issue with braking systems is that nobody ever acknowledges that braking systems can and do break or cause problems. So it's never, as a lot of people seem to assert, just a case of "Will it do any good whatsoever?" Instead, the question should be, "Will it do enough good to outweigh the cost and the possible problems it could actually cause?"

[tropical36]

Rice wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
So before all the hate starts I have to add the disclaimer here, I'm just telling you what the law is. Brakebuddy and all those others know good and well they are lying on their websites but they do it anyway. I would recommend that if you have a heavy toad or a light motorhome or a combination of the two, that you get aux brakes on your toad. But if you have a heavy DP and a light toad, do what you feel comfortable with.

Thanks for the info about what the laws actually are. It's interesting.

My issue with braking systems is that nobody ever acknowledges that braking systems can and do break or cause problems. So it's never, as a lot of people seem to assert, just a case of "Will it do any good whatsoever?" Instead, the question should be, "Will it do enough good to outweigh the cost and the possible problems it could actually cause?"

In my estimation, the having of an RV in the first place, more than outweighs any and all problems, that one could possibly have with our READYBRAKE!
In fact it came as part of the Tow Bar package and couldn't be any simpler in operation or to install. I look at it now and then, but haven't done a thing to it, since I installed it. If it decides to quit working for any reason, then it'll be like not having it in the first place and what many are suggesting here. This being a remote possibility, I'll simply have to take a few minutes out of my busy schedule and fix it......

[irishtom29]

It seems to me that if the combined weight of the tow vehicle and toad doesn't exceed the tow vehicle's GVWR you should be fine given that the TV's brakes are designed to stop a load at the GVWR. I'm under the impression that with many large DPs the combined weights can be well under the TV's GVWR. The main reason I'll be using brake system is that my combined TV ( a Tiffin gasser) and toad weights will exceed the GVWR and Ford recommends using a brake system in that case. Ford recommends, not Brake Buddy.

I don't buy the argument that one should do everything possible to minimize braking distance, that's why my car has it's stock brakes and not aftermarket high performence brakes. My Fiesta is Bremboless.

[Rice]

msmith1199 wrote:
So before all the hate starts I have to add the disclaimer here, I'm just telling you what the law is. Brakebuddy and all those others know good and well they are lying on their websites but they do it anyway. I would recommend that if you have a heavy toad or a light motorhome or a combination of the two, that you get aux brakes on your toad. But if you have a heavy DP and a light toad, do what you feel comfortable with.

Thanks for the info about what the laws actually are. It's interesting.

My issue with braking systems is that nobody ever acknowledges that braking systems can and do break or cause problems. So it's never, as a lot of people seem to assert, just a case of "Will it do any good whatsoever?" Instead, the question should be, "Will it do enough good to outweigh the cost and the possible problems it could actually cause?"

[msmith1199]

xctraveler wrote:
Not sure I have a dog in this fight since I have had a supplemental tow system installed and in use for the past 13 years. I towed for 3 years without one and was grateful when I finally got around to installing it. Crossing the b order into British Columbia they require a brake system for any towed vehicle in excess of 1500 kg (3300 lbs). Not everyone is headed into BC, but. . .

Correct. My understanding is that applies to all of Canada.

[xctraveler]

Not sure I have a dog in this fight since I have had a supplemental tow system installed and in use for the past 13 years. I towed for 3 years without one and was grateful when I finally got around to installing it. Crossing the b order into British Columbia they require a brake system for any towed vehicle in excess of 1500 kg (3300 lbs). Not everyone is headed into BC, but. . .

[msmith1199]

Mr.Mark wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Don't look for TRAILERS. Look for, or do what I did, ask the State Police, what the requirement is for a "VEHICLE IN TOW".
Then try to remember when you saw any tow truck operator put a supplemental braking system in a car that they were towing. TRAILER requirements are what the people put in the ads to fool people in to buying their braking system. It works, so they keep doing it. msimth1199 is ex-police and he is telling you the truth.
As I mentioned, I contacted most States that I would travel in and never found a single one that required brakes in my toad. I posted the names of the people that I contacted. Here is a typical reply from Florida. NOTE that no weight limit is ever mentioned. Compare this with what BrakeBuddy tries to tell you:
A vehicle towed behind a motor home would be exempt from the braking requirements in Florida statute 316.261 as a drive away, tow away operation. Please contact me if you have any other questions.

Lt. Jeff Frost
Florida Highway Patrol
Public Affairs Officer
Commercial Vehicle Enforcement
2900 Apalachee Parkway, MS 45
850-617-2279
Tallahassee, Florida 32399
www.flhsmv.gov/fhp
Jefffrost@flhsmv.gov

RG, I'm not looking for 'trailers'. It is what came up when I punched in 'towing'. It is hard to navigate TDOT.

I want to see it in writing what TN says about towing a car behind a motorhome and the requirements.

I'll find it. I haven't given up.

MM.

The vast majority of States do not have any laws that specifically address towing a motor vehicle behind another motor vehicle. There are a couple that do. Over the years on here I have gone to the actual vehicle codes of most States and checked whenever somebody has posted that it is required by law. I did not keep track, but I did find a couple that it was. North Carolina is one of those. Somebody posted the statute on here and you can see that it covers the towing of a "vehicle" by another vehicle. But it also only mandates it if the vehicle being towed is over 4,000 pounds. So many toads do come in under that, like a Jeep Wrangler.

Most state laws about trailer brakes specifically say "Trailer." And someplace all those vehicle codes will define a trailer. And none of those definitions will fit the definition of a motor vehicle. So none of those laws that require "trailer" brakes apply to a towed motor vehicle. They would have to specifically include motor vehicle or vehicle to apply, just like the law in North Carolina does. I think Virginia's law also included motor vehicles and there may have been on other I found.

What all the rest of the states have is a braking performance requirement. Those laws will state that a vehicle, or combination of vehicles, must be able to stop within a certain distance from a certain speed. I have a heavy DP and my current toad is a 2017 Jeep Wrangler. I'm not using aux brakes and probably won't. I feel perfectly safe driving it and although I have not gone out and slammed on the brakes in a measured course, I'm confident I can meet the braking requirements in the charts.

So before all the hate starts I have to add the disclaimer here, I'm just telling you what the law is. Brakebuddy and all those others know good and well they are lying on their websites but they do it anyway. I would recommend that if you have a heavy toad or a light motorhome or a combination of the two, that you get aux brakes on your toad. But if you have a heavy DP and a light toad, do what you feel comfortable with.

[Sully2]

doc brown wrote:
People are driving a motor home that costs in excess of 100k in many instances, and they are not willing to spend 1k to minimize potential liability or injury to someone else? As said, forget what is required by law, lets use some common sense.

"They werent" and "I wasnt either". Mainly because there are a dozen different makes and models on the market that just flat arent worth a ####. No one has the "cajones" to test them and declare publicly which are no good.

"They" force us to use seat belts and now tire inflation monitors so IF the aux brakes were all that good...why arent they already installed on coaches???