Surge brakes vs electric

[jerem0621]

Howdy folks,

I've been seriously considering a newer ultralight pop up like the Quicksilver 8 or 10 for my families camping needs. We are going to pull it with our Kia Sorento. My question is about surge brakes vs electric. I am very familiar with the electric brake system coming from my travel trailer experience. However, my only experience with surge brakes is with uhaul trailers. My experience has been a positive one.

For surge brakes I like that the braking system is entirely built in to the trailer and any tv can pull the trailer and have trailer brakes.

I don't like that I can't manually use the brake controller if a sway event happens. Also I don't like that I can't use sway control on the pup with surge brakes.

Then again, I am not sure I will ever need these things with a properly loaded pop up trailer.

So I am asking, how has your experience with surge brakes been?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[willald]

mike243 wrote:
..Also on wet roads the truck will have to be able to have enuf traction in order to make the surge brake activate..

..And depending on the (electric) brake controller, this would be true with electric brakes, too.

a LOT depends on the brake controller to be used. Many brake controllers sold today (timing ramp-up type devices) are so pitiful, they really aren't much if any improvement over a surge brake setup.

Unless you're willing to commit some $$ to purchase one of the really good electric brake Controllers (Tekonsha Prodigy, P3, or something like the MaxBrake that works directly off of brake hydraulic pressure)...IMO electric may not be worth the extra hassle of wiring it up. Surge brakes have come a long way over the years, and from what I've experienced, surge brakes work pretty good, especially in cases where the trailer weighs less than the tow vehicle.

I know this isn't relevant for the original poster here, but if you have one of the newer trucks that comes with an integrated brake controller...Its a no-brainer then, electric would be the only way to go.

[broark01]

Another consideration, that I didn't see mentioned, is the use of a weight distributing hitch with surge brakes. If surge brakes are used, be sure to get a WD hitch that is compatible.

[mike243]

Also on wet roads the truck will have to be able to have enuf traction in order to make the surge brake activate, not sure how much force is needed but I use to haul heavy equipment & some of the trailers had surge, electric is my choice always

[blt2ski]

Allworth wrote:
J,

Slightly off-topic, but you can double the life of your landscape trailer by converting the straight front frame to an "A" frame.

Get some 1.5"x1.5" A-36 steel angle and have your local welder install it from the front corners of the platform to a point about 8" behind the hitch. It doesn't have to be welded like a nuke submarine. Just a 1/4" bead dropped into the slots.

We have done this to both of our light trailers that didn't have it from the factory and the increased stiffness is remarkable.

Have fun out there.

This would be slightly off topic, since his trailer shown, already has an a frame style tongue. ALtho extending it a bit helps in backing in tight spots!

Marty

[Allworth]

J,

Slightly off-topic, but you can double the life of your landscape trailer by converting the straight front frame to an "A" frame.

Get some 1.5"x1.5" A-36 steel angle and have your local welder install it from the front corners of the platform to a point about 8" behind the hitch. It doesn't have to be welded like a nuke submarine. Just a 1/4" bead dropped into the slots.

We have done this to both of our light trailers that didn't have it from the factory and the increased stiffness is remarkable.

Have fun out there.

[blt2ski]

Jeremiah,

From having had a few Tekonsha's thru the years, all are about the same size! so get what you want, and install it!

One thing I have found as to "IF" it made sense to hook up brakes on a trailer. If the trailer weighs more than the payload available for the tow rig, put brakes on. They may not do a lot per say, but they do help some. Even a small trailer like you show behind the sorento, helps to have brakes on it with your 350! Trust me, I know! I had a bigger single axel towed behind a flatbed 350. Once I put brakes on the trailer, my brake mileage on the truck fronts doubled. From 10-15K per replacement, to 20-25K miles. This is daily city use with lawn mowers etc in the trailer. ABout 1500-2000 lbs total.

Just some more 02 from me, not that 02 is worth much these days!

Marty

[jerem0621]

Thanks everyone! I am just going to wire in the Sorento for an Electric brake controller. There is no reason not too and the likelihood that I will have to install brakes on the smaller pup is a strong possibility. Plus If I have to I can use a sway bar on the pup if needed.

I know that I am only talking about a 1000-1500 lb ish rig but I want the best towing experience possible out of this little fuel efficient rig.

I got the first part of rig set up today.

I got my hitch installed here at home. (Love my Torque Wrench! LOL) Its a nice Curt round tube hitch. Real clean install. I think its a 3500 lb GTW and a 350 lb tongue weight in WC only. I could have got a 5000lb rated square tube hitch that could handle WD, but the little SUV will never be loaded close to that so I opted for the more visually appealing yet capable round tube hitch. (It is still pretty beefy)

Anyhooo.. here is the pic of the SUV hitched up for the first time to my little red utility trailer. I may put electric brakes on it too! LOL



My trailer wiring is in the mail from Etrailer.com... hopefully I will have it installed by the weekend.

Question for you folks. I have used the Voyager from Tekonsha in the past with my F350. There was a TON of room for the relatively large Voyager with that truck. The space to mount the brake control in the Sorento is some what limited. How compact is the P2 vs the Voyager in this application? I really need a smallish controller. I hate the thought of using a small time based controller based on past experience and I would much prefer a Prodigy.

One thing is for sure, this SUV and the future PUP will be a long cry from my 55 ft combined TT and F350 dually. Hopefully I will get better than 7.5 MPG while pulling :B

Cheers!

Jeremiah

[KD4UPL]

I have surge brakes on my boat trailer. They work fine. The solenoid connected to the back-up lights locks them out when in reverse so no problem there. Normally, when I'm going downhill for a long time it's down a mountain. These roads are twisty and require slow speeds so I appreciate the trailer brakes being slightly engaged (If they are.)
If we're not talking boat trailers (constantly dunking brakes in the water) I would prefer electric brakes for the controlability.

[skyhammer]

If you have surge brakes and wish to have electric brakes, simply convert over to electric over hydraulic brakes. You replace the surge mechanism on the trailer tongue with the setup in the picture.
Not all brake controllers can be used with electric over hydraulic brakes, but the P3 can as well as the Ford controller and several others.

Moderator edit to re-size pictures to forum limit of 640px maximum width.

[blt2ski]

If you have a choice from the get go, I would go electric! With that said.....having towed with both, a surge system setup properly works well. I like a couple of others, feel it is easier to get an electric setup to work, along with generally speaking, better working at the end of the day. If it were a trailer with surge, vs one with out, I would go surge. OR< buy the one with out electric brakes, assuming the axel has the correct backing plate to instal a set of electric drums, rim diam is big enough etc. For $250 and 4-6 hrs, you have electric brakes installed.

Marty

[bikendan]

first, i'm not aware of any newer popup having surge brakes. the ones that do have brakes, have electric ones. i don't think popups have had surge brakes for some time now. could be wrong.:@

and i'm also not aware of any towable RV having disc brakes, especially any popup. maybe some expensive ones do?:h

[jerem0621]

Ivylog wrote:
OP, glad you are concerned about safety, but brakes on a pop up? The biggest disadvantage of surge is they will burn your brakes up coming down a long grade. You also need to add some way of stopping them from working when backing up a hill...especially disk brakes.

Thanks! Yea, I'm a bit of a control freak for sure. Lol

Our tv is a smaller vehicle.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[skipnchar]

If you're used to electric brakes you may not be happy with surge brakes. Not NEARLY as responsive to specific needs as electric.
Good luck / Skip

[Ivylog]

OP, glad you are concerned about safety, but brakes on a pop up? The biggest disadvantage of surge is they will burn your brakes up coming down a long grade. You also need to add some way of stopping them from working when backing up a hill...especially disk brakes.