Sway Fatigue

To ultimately answer your original question:

NO. Absolutely not. Metal does not fatigue in a manner that requires it to need "rest" to "recover." Metal does not "heal."

If your hitch setup is working on Day 1, and you do not make any significant changes, it will work the same on Day 21.

That means, despite your repeated denials, SOMETHING is changing between Day 1 and Day 3 to cause the handling issues you are describing.

Just a fair warning, but people will soon grow frustrated with your repeated denials and dismissals of their suggestions. Either you have one of the many common problems plaguing trailer towers everywhere, or you have magical gremlins.

Somehow I place a much higher likelihood that it's a common problem, not magical gremlins.

It could still be driver fatigue. Even though you "rest" you are not 100% the next morning as you would be sleeping at home in your own bed. You may be 85% on Day 2 and only 70% on Day 3.

Sounds like you are making some progress in figuring things out.

To get your payload capacity you want to take the GVWR figure from the sticker on the door jamb and subtract the scaled weight of the TV. To get an accurate available payload capacity, you want to include anything and everything you would have in the TV for a camping trip including a full tank of gas (esp. if pushing things). And when going through the scale with WDH dis-engaged, you want the spring bars in the back of the TV.

The number of pads at a scale is irrelevant as you could get all the info. you needed even if there was only one pad. Gotta make the 3 passes - TV only, TV + TT & WDH engaged and then TV + TT & WDH dis-engaged. You could do the TV only any time without the TT. If you are near a highway commercial truck scale, you could weigh just the truck there since those scales are accurate.

The following may help:

learntorv.com

Learn to RV

"How heavy a travel trailer can I tow?" by Changing Gears calculator

Another calculator plus info: fifthwheelst

When you have all the scale numbers done appropriately and TV ratings, just post them and someone will help decipher them.

Rough31 wrote:
The traier is set up for travel, we keep most of our belongings on board throughout the camping season, Only thing missing is the duffel bags, and fridge food. The heaviest kitchen items sucj as bottled water were refilled on purpose before weighing.

I may very well be wrong but my understanding of why it was two passes instead of three was because of the three seperate pads. And the numbers dont add evenly because they area conglomerate of two sets of numbers. GCWR is 7940 + 5700lbs not the 6800 GVWR which includes the tongue weight on the truck.

The weights were obtained in the following two passes... First weight Truck on steer axel pad, nothing on Drive axel pad and trailer on trailer axel pad. 6800 lbs, 0lbs and 6980lbs with gross weight of 13780.

Second pass ... unhitched... Truck on first pad, hitch on second and trailer axels on third. 5700lbs, 1200lbs, 6740lbs with gross weight of 13640lbs.

The way it was explained to me. The first pass gave me the GVWR (6800lbs) and GCWR(13780). The second pass provided the tongue weight (1200) a GCWR (13640 - noted 140lb differential) and the trailer weight (13640 - 5700 = 7940).

What you are missing are IMO the MOST IMPORTANT NUMBERS. Those are the TV alone wts. on each axle and the three axle wts. (TV front, TV rear, and TT axles) with the WDH engaged. This will tell you how well your WDH is adjusted and how the TW is being distributed between those three areas.

Again by the time you add DW and full TV fluids and cargo plus the stuff in the trailer (100lbs of food in a refer is not uncommon) and I doubt you had all the normal dry goods one adds for a camping trip such as bread, canned goods, etc. that can as I have said total 500lbs extra easily.

I always make it a practice to do my weigh ins during my first fuel stop (after fueling) when I start out on a road trip since that gives me the truest number for what my "ACTUAL WT" is.

BTW GVWR is not a number that varies like the 6800 you are using in that context, but is a "WEIGHT RATING", the same goes for GCWR. When one refers to an actual wt. you should leave off the "R" and say the GVW or GCW.

Larry

The traier is set up for travel, we keep most of our belongings on board throughout the camping season, Only thing missing is the duffel bags, and fridge food. The heaviest kitchen items sucj as bottled water were refilled on purpose before weighing.

I may very well be wrong but my understanding of why it was two passes instead of three was because of the three seperate pads. And the numbers dont add evenly because they area conglomerate of two sets of numbers. GCWR is 7940 + 5700lbs not the 6800 GVWR which includes the tongue weight on the truck.

The weights were obtained in the following two passes... First weight Truck on steer axel pad, nothing on Drive axel pad and trailer on trailer axel pad. 6800 lbs, 0lbs and 6980lbs with gross weight of 13780.

Second pass ... unhitched... Truck on first pad, hitch on second and trailer axels on third. 5700lbs, 1200lbs, 6740lbs with gross weight of 13640lbs.

The way it was explained to me. The first pass gave me the GVWR (6800lbs) and GCWR(13780). The second pass provided the tongue weight (1200) a GCWR (13640 - noted 140lb differential) and the trailer weight (13640 - 5700 = 7940).

As far as I know, the hitch heads are not interchangeable with different bars. If you need stronger bars you have to purchase a whole new hitch. This may not be true of the two highest rated bar/head combinations however.
Barney

Rough31 wrote:


I located a CAT Scales near my home. The Tech directed two passes to obtain weights.

Now my weigh in results - Combined Weight - 13640lbs, Tongue Weight - 1200lbs, Trailer weight 7940lbs. GVWR - 6800lbs.

My wife and daughter were not with me so I was missing about 200lbs which would have brought the GVWR up to 7000lbs.

My understanding of those numbers is that I am at the high end of my limits, but have not exceeded them??? I do think the TW is probably heavier then i want as it does slightly exceed the 15% mark. I do have lumber for levelling and some other removable items in my front hatch that could help in bringing those numbers down.

Actually you are over on your TV receiver tongue wt. rating of 1,100 and it takes THREE passes to get all the important numbers NOT TWO which you could have found out here by reading previous posts instead of trusting some CAT scale TECH whatever that is:h.

Also you numbers don't make sense where you say your GCW is 13,640 with the trailer weighing 7940 and the TV with just you in it at 6800 equals 14,740 (7,940 + 6800). Please post the actual CAT scale numbers for each weigh in with the three values and what the configuration was on each weigh in (i.e. TV only, TV +TT with WDH engaged, or TV + TT with WDH attached, but not engaged). You have already missed several important numbers and it's unclear what the weights you are now reporting really mean. Another really important number is the RAWR and RAW of you TV with the TT attached and the WDH engaged.

I'm also wondering what your actual wts will be since you obviously did your weigh in w/o all passengers onboard and I would assume you were not fully loaded for both the TV and TT (i.e. all extra food, clothes, toys, etc.) as you would be as you pull out for a camping trip. This could easily add over 500lbs when those items missing are added and the weigh distribution by axle especially for the TV could be critical.

As I can see so far you are as Ben said at or over the edge on what you are trying to tow and no are faced with having to "JOCKY" things around to get the numbers within your ratings and IMO that tells me you have too much trailer for your TV. If you can't simply load things up and still be well under any one rating then you either have too much TT for the TV or not enough TV for the TT. It looks like again my WAG of keeping a dry TT wt. in the 5000 to 6000 range when dealing with most 1/2 T TVs is still a good approach so folks aren't in the situation you are now finding yourself in.

Larry

LarryJM wrote:


From reading your posts in this thread it appears you have the 5.3L crew cab "short box" configuration and according to the information in the table referenced above on page 9-92 (2WD version) and page 9-95 (4WD version) your tow capacity is between 6,000 (4WD) (6,100 for 2WD) with a 3.08 rear end and 6700 (4WD)(6800 for 2WD) with a 3.08 rear end and the K5L HD Cooling PKG (7,000 for 2WD K5L HD Cooling Pkg XFE) upto 9500 (4WD) (9600 for 2WD) with the 3.42 rear end and K5L HD Cooling Pkg.

Biggest issue I see is also in that the GCWR varies from only 11,500 to 15,000 as a max and with a trailer having a "dry wt" of 7,000 and a wet wt. of probably closer to 8500 attached to a 1/2T TV with a max. GVWR of 7300(4WD) or 7100(2WD), I bet you are most likely over or VERY, VERY close to all your ratings .... GCWR, GVWR and probably RAWR and maybe even tires. There is also a chance you have exceeded not only your WDH rating of 1,000lbs, but the factory receiver max tongue wt. for using a WDH setup.

Larry

Ok.... So first my vehicle (I was wrong regarding tow capacity)... I do have the 5.3L, Crew Cab, Short box, 3.42 Axel ratio with the HD cooling package.My tow capacity is 9500lbs, GCWR is 15000lbs and GVWR is 7300lbs.

I located a CAT Scales near my home. The Tech directed two passes to obtain weights.

Now my weigh in results - Combined Weight - 13640lbs, Tongue Weight - 1200lbs, Trailer weight 7940lbs. GVWR - 6800lbs.

My wife and daughter were not with me so I was missing about 200lbs which would have brought the GVWR up to 7000lbs.

My understanding of those numbers is that I am at the high end of my limits, but have not exceeded them??? I do think the TW is probably heavier then i want as it does slightly exceed the 15% mark. I do have lumber for levelling and some other removable items in my front hatch that could help in bringing those numbers down.

Tongue weight is also an issue for my hitch. I have the Equalizer 10K, When I plug the numbers into their web site it indicated I should be using the 12K... If I reduce the TW to 1000 it advises the 10K is sufficient. What I can't tell from the site is if there is a difference in the Hitch heads or would I just need new torsion bars? I will have to call them during business hours next week.

My storage yard actually had a poured concrete pad which they have no built on yet. So i took advantage of the perfectly level surface. I pulled onto it, ripped my hitch apart and started from ground zero. My hitch height moved the trailer from slightly above level to slightly below.

Test drives post changes seemed strong, but a coupe hours of driving time will be needed to be confident in the changes.

Rough31,

Some questions about your truck:

What is the style truck, crew cab/ short bed? 2 or 4wd? Is the 1928lbs payload rating per the drivers door jamb sticker, or the brochure/web site listed payload?

Have you added ANYTHING to the truck since it rolled off the assembly line, bed liner (spray or plastic), mud/splash guards, step bars, tonneau cover (soft or fiberglass) or truck topper/cap, etc?

What do you carry in the bed of the truck? Maybe weigh it with the bathroom scale?

The trailer "listed hitch weight of about 850lbs", is the the brochure weight? If so, add close to 150lbs for the battery and filled propane tanks (30lb tanks), putting you around 1k lbs before loading the trailer with clothes/food/gear, etc.

What part of Ont are you in? Maybe a fellow Ont will know of a scale near you.

Rough31 wrote:
I am wondering if there are parts of the tow vehicle/trailer that will suffer fatigue over a long haul trip resulting in increased trailer sway while you travel. And what can be done to reduce those problems.

My truck is a 2011 Silverado 1500 with the 5.3L engine and factory tow package. The vehicle is rated for 10,500lbs. My trailer is the Sunset Trail 31SS. The factory dry weight is 7000lbs so I am well within my vehicles tow capacity. My hitch is an Equalizer with 1000lb sway arms.

I recently completed a trip from Southern Ontario to Disney World and back again. On previous trips my set up has been very effective and I felt I had weight distribution and sway control very well balanced. I do not carry more then 5 gallons of fluids and am consistent from trip to trip with what weight I have on board and how it is carried.

In both directions, day one was completed without noticing any significant sway issues. Day two was generally still comfortable, some jet wash movement was noted but nothing significant. Day three, on both trips was white knuckle at times.

On the trip South, I did not unhitch at the overnight stops and I wondered if that may have resulted in some form of fatigue of the suspension or other parts. For the return trip I made sure i unhitched each night and still experienced the same challenges. I raised my L-brackets and that did seem to provide some relief but did not completely resolve the issues.

I tried to note when it was the worst. It seemed after any rest stop I would feel more sway for another 30-40 miles and would see a significant difference after refuelling which would be the only period of major weight change.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Well according to the following ....pgs 9-91 thru 9-103

Your assumed and promised 10,500lb tow capacity is obviously wrong since towing capacities over 10K are only for the 6.2L engine with the 3.73 rear end. Also your assumed payload of 1928 is only for the CC short box with the 6.2L engine and NHT "Maximum trailering pkg" which you don't have.

From reading your posts in this thread it appears you have the 5.3L crew cab "short box" configuration and according to the information in the table referenced above on page 9-92 (2WD version) and page 9-95 (4WD version) your tow capacity is between 6,000 (4WD) (6,100 for 2WD) with a 3.08 rear end and 6700 (4WD)(6800 for 2WD) with a 3.08 rear end and the K5L HD Cooling PKG (7,000 for 2WD K5L HD Cooling Pkg XFE) upto 9500 (4WD) (9600 for 2WD) with the 3.42 rear end and K5L HD Cooling Pkg.

Biggest issue I see is also in that the GCWR varies from only 11,500 to 15,000 as a max and with a trailer having a "dry wt" of 7,000 and a wet wt. of probably closer to 8500 attached to a 1/2T TV with a max. GVWR of 7300(4WD) or 7100(2WD), I bet you are most likely over or VERY, VERY close to all your ratings .... GCWR, GVWR and probably RAWR and maybe even tires. There is also a chance you have exceeded not only your WDH rating of 1,000lbs, but the factory receiver max tongue wt. for using a WDH setup.

As Ben correctly stated you are on or over the edge in a lot of separate areas and what you are experiencing IMHO is how fickle a tow combo behaves when you have basically exceeded or pushed the limits too close. Some days it feels great and other days is a "NIGHTMARE".

Finally, I agree instead of you guessing widly at numbers you need to get to a set of scales and remove all this guess work and start dealing with facts and not wishes and fantasy numbers.

Not to scare you, but what would really concern me is that being on that "bitter edge" so to speak could end you up in the ditch or worse when you run into a combination of factors that put those now close limits into the dangerous or deadly area and you won't know it until it happens and then it's too late.

It's been fairly well documented IMO with many, many posts from 1/2 TV owners that with a very few exceptions one would be wise to stay with TTs with a dry wt. of between 5,000 and 6,000 lbs so that you have a reasonable amount of safety margin left over to handle "MR. MURPHY" when he unexpectedly shows up.

Larry

Front wheel bearings wear faster, shocks wear faster and steering connecting rod ends wear out as well as bushings. Front tire usually wear faster when towing as when a truck passes the side force is a lot greater. Yup. Lots of wear but if your front bearings go, buy Timkens, they last longer.