Hi everyone! New to the forums and looking for help. I want to thank everyone in advance for their input. We (My wife and I) purchased a 2018 F250 Lariat Crew Cab Short Bed Diesellate last year. At the time we had a little Lance 1575 TT...the truck was overkill but we were planning on getting a larger trailer later. The Lance is gone and now we are shopping for a larger TT or 5th wheel.The models we've narrowed down to are either the Grand Designs 337RLS or the Jayco 321RSTS. The Jayco is our #1 Choice.With all of the different websites, calculators and so on...I've come up with wildly varying numbers on what I can actually safely tow... with numbers as wild as 7,448 lbs on the low end...up to 14,700 (mfr max rating). Spreadsheet of Truck and Trailers Door Sticker from the TruckDoor Sticker of Tire and Loading from Truck Weights and Measures from Jayco One of the confusing things is that the GVWR is 10,000 lbs. With the Tire and Load rating sticker...I deduce that the GWR is 10,000 - 2,166 = 7,834... but my combined axle rating is RGAWR 6,340 + FGAWR 5,200 = 11,540. By this logic...shouldn't my actual cargo capacity be 11,540 CGAWR - 7,834 GVW = 3,706?? I'm a financial analyst by trade...I work on complex financial solutions...but wading through the numbers for towing is so frustrating because its seems like NO ONE is being 100% with their numbers...not the RV, Truck, State or Government. If I ran my business with the way these companies throw out numbers I'd end up in jail. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. We have our hearts set on one of these 2 RVs. Thank you! EricModerator edit to fix pictures.

STOP!Your over analyzing things to death.Load the truck like your going camping and go to the scales. Subtract your scaled weight from the trucks GVWR. Thats your available payload.TTs will drop approx 12% of their actual weight on the hitch.Fivers will drop approx 20% of their actual weight directly over the rear axle. Of course you need to reduce hitch weight from your available payload.Overloading or exceeding your payload is not illegal, but pretty stupid.The advertised dry weights are also meaningless. You will never tow a dry trailer. Instead look up or find the trailers GVWR, and use that. You may never reach the trailers GVWR, but any less will give you a margin for error.

Fence82246 wrote:One of the confusing things is that the GVWR is 10,000 lbs. With the Tire and Load rating sticker...I deduce that the GWR is 10,000 - 2,166 = 7,834... but my combined axle rating is RGAWR 6,340 + FGAWR 5,200 = 11,540. By this logic...shouldn't my actual cargo capacity be 11,540 CGAWR - 7,834 GVW = 3,706?? An F250 is a class 2 truck which by definition is limited to 10,000 lbs max GVWR. There are reasons for this that aren't important here beyond knowing they aren't related to the capability of the tow vehicle. Stick within your max axle ratings and you'll be fine. It looks like the Jayco you say is your top choice has a GVWR of 12,700 lbs. I think it's really unlikely it would push you out of your truck's max RAWR, but the only way to know for sure is a scale.

Hey Dawn and Ida! Thanks for the responses. I don't own the trailer yet so going to a scale isn't practical. I don't want to do what I've read/heard/seen others do...is not "do the math" first...buy the trailer and then figure out they are over limits.

Fence82246 wrote:Hey Dawn and Ida! Thanks for the responses. I don't own the trailer yet so going to a scale isn't practical. I don't want to do what I've read/heard/seen others do...is not "do the math" first...buy the trailer and then figure out they are over limits.They're not suggesting you take the trailer to the scales - just the truck fueled and loaded for travel. This is to find the difference between the actual scaled weights (especially the rear axle) and the capacities listed on the door sticker. Be sure to subtract about 150 lbs. from the payload number you end up with to account for the weight of a fifth wheel hitch (50 lbs. if you use an Andersen Ultimate).I don't know about the Jayco, but our Reflection 337 puts 23% of it's gross weight on the pin (3,000 lbs. in our case) - about 23% and we're just under the trailer's GVWR when fully loaded. It was too close to the limits for our 2013 GMC Sierra 2500HD diesel (which had a scaled payload of about 3,200 lbs.), so we moved up to a dual rear wheel 1-ton truck. You'll find that payload is the limiting factor on all 3/4-ton trucks. Any modern 3/4-ton diesel truck will pull a house off its foundation - you just can't put the weight of the house on the rear axle of the truck.Rob

Both look like nice rigs....basically you are looking at over 2000 lbs of pin weight - either one.Now, it's all up the your truck's payload.

Tow Weights are confusing the heck out of me! Need Help

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
May 12, 2018
A 14,700# RV can have easily 20-25% pin weight. Even at 3k pin you will be overloaded on "Max Payload". Typically a 250/2500 can easily handle a loaded to 12K RV, possibly more as it boils down to rear tire carrying capacity and what "Number" you are willing to violate!
troubledwaters
Explorer III
May 11, 2018
My suggestion is to go here and do some reading. This is a good site which just gives you good, reliable, straight up information. Read up so you can understand everything that is involved. But With a payload of 2166 on your truck, both of those trailers are going to be over the trucks ratings.

The fact that they are 5th wheels means they eat up a lot more of your trucks payload. You can tow a lot larger TT than 5th wheel with any given truck.
sgfrye
Explorer
May 11, 2018
IdaD wrote:
Fence82246 wrote:

One of the confusing things is that the GVWR is 10,000 lbs. With the Tire and Load rating sticker...I deduce that the GWR is 10,000 - 2,166 = 7,834... but my combined axle rating is RGAWR 6,340 + FGAWR 5,200 = 11,540. By this logic...shouldn't my actual cargo capacity be 11,540 CGAWR - 7,834 GVW = 3,706??

An F250 is a class 2 truck which by definition is limited to 10,000 lbs max GVWR. There are reasons for this that aren't important here beyond knowing they aren't related to the capability of the tow vehicle. Stick within your max axle ratings and you'll be fine. It looks like the Jayco you say is your top choice has a GVWR of 12,700 lbs. I think it's really unlikely it would push you out of your truck's max RAWR, but the only way to know for sure is a scale.

x2
from what i have read about and experienced in real life towing with an f150 and now an f250, this is alway good advice and best to not try to over analyze it to death. if you are constantly overanalizing, you will kill part of the fun of camping.

stay within all axle max ratings and go camping.
after you do buy a camper, load up for camping and take it to the scales to see where you are at so you can know how to pack and where to store things to move weight around for best towing.
JIMNLIN
Explorer III
May 09, 2018
""Vehicle manufacturers may determine the GVWR of a vehicle by calculating the maximum load rating of the vehicles axles, tires, brakes, frame, suspension and wheels in order to come up with a GVWR rating. Also, a manufacturer may limit the GVWR if so desired. So they could have the componentry to rate higher but choose a lower rating at their discretion."

As others say just stay under GAWRs ...especially RAWR.
RAWR = the lessor of the tires/wheels/rear suspension and axle.

Throw some load numbers at ya'...
Most new gen 3/4 ton trucks rear axle can weigh in the 3000 lb range = approx 3300 lb payload in the bed.

Also a gvwr based payload may and has overloaded some trucks rear axle. Thats why its important to know the trucks separate front and rear axle weights (actual scaled weight..not a estimate).
The mfg payload is gvwr based so it "may" have to be spread over both axles.
falconbrother
Explorer II
May 09, 2018
I don't know what your high end is but, I guarantee that you're well over 7,448. My Suburban 1500 gasser is 7,200.
Bedlam
Moderator
May 08, 2018
The F250 uses a Visteon Sterling rear axle rated at 9750 lbs and same frame design as a DRW, so these are not limiting physical factors. The rear springs, rims and tires are typically rated around 7000 lbs which is where you want watch the total applied weight. Expect about 3000 lbs on the rear axle with the truck unloaded, but additional gear, tools or fuel tanks will take some of that reserve.

Now that physical constraints are addressed, there are paper constraints that have nothing to do with actual capacity. As was posted, the F250 is capped at 10,000 lbs since it is sold in the Class 2b category. Your state may license the truck for any desired GVWR you like so they can pay to repair the roads based on actual maximum weight and wear. Legally, your registered GVWR is what anyone cares about except for British Columbia where they use the door post sticker.
Second_Chance
Explorer II
May 08, 2018
downtheroad wrote:
Both look like nice rigs....basically you are looking at over 2000 lbs of pin weight - either one.

Now, it's all up the your truck's payload.

If you'll read my post directly above, our Reflection 337 puts 3,000 lbs. on the pin. I don't know what you're using for calculations.

Rob
downtheroad
Explorer
May 08, 2018
Both look like nice rigs....basically you are looking at over 2000 lbs of pin weight - either one.

Now, it's all up the your truck's payload.
Second_Chance
Explorer II
May 08, 2018
Fence82246 wrote:
Hey Dawn and Ida! Thanks for the responses.

I don't own the trailer yet so going to a scale isn't practical. I don't want to do what I've read/heard/seen others do...is not "do the math" first...buy the trailer and then figure out they are over limits.

They're not suggesting you take the trailer to the scales - just the truck fueled and loaded for travel. This is to find the difference between the actual scaled weights (especially the rear axle) and the capacities listed on the door sticker. Be sure to subtract about 150 lbs. from the payload number you end up with to account for the weight of a fifth wheel hitch (50 lbs. if you use an Andersen Ultimate).

I don't know about the Jayco, but our Reflection 337 puts 23% of it's gross weight on the pin (3,000 lbs. in our case) - about 23% and we're just under the trailer's GVWR when fully loaded. It was too close to the limits for our 2013 GMC Sierra 2500HD diesel (which had a scaled payload of about 3,200 lbs.), so we moved up to a dual rear wheel 1-ton truck. You'll find that payload is the limiting factor on all 3/4-ton trucks. Any modern 3/4-ton diesel truck will pull a house off its foundation - you just can't put the weight of the house on the rear axle of the truck.

Rob
Fence82246
Explorer
May 08, 2018
Hey Dawn and Ida! Thanks for the responses.

I don't own the trailer yet so going to a scale isn't practical. I don't want to do what I've read/heard/seen others do...is not "do the math" first...buy the trailer and then figure out they are over limits.