Very cold weather, toilet overflow, sink too

[halhill3]

Hi, I'm about two years a full timer, and I'm stumped, which is something you can't be if you are on the road.

I'm at the border/panhandle of Florida/Alabama. The weather has been in record lows, freezing or below.

Two weeks ago my toilet over flowed, what a mess. One time, no apparent reason (release valve no hanging on Aqua Magic IV); o.k. a fluke--flukes being scary as hell while RVing.

Then again, another cold snap. I had: water dripping to keep the water hose from freezing shut--but the water tanks wer--I think, yikes--pretty empty; exterior shut off on black water shut; exterior shut off on grey water open and hose exiting at a good angle.

I said a bad word, compared replacing the ball--toilet seal--valve, and the water release valve to a new toilet, and got a new Aqua Magic V. (Off the subject, but much more flimsy that the IV, but I like the univalve action on the hand model.)

Last night, below freezing. Water in a pencil-lead stream in bathroom sink and kitchen. And, the water overflowed in the bathroom sink, AND was ready to overflow in the toilet--caught that one. On "flushing" the toilet it looks like a cherry bomb had gone off in the tank, the water boiling up I pulled the flush arm. So, I don't pay good attention then.

I ran outside and opened the black water exit valve. All water disappeared--except what was on my carpet, again.

I just don't get it. My water exits are simple, one big one from the black tank, and a smaller one from the grey that joins the larger black exit pipe near the drain hookup. Nothing tricky. Soon as I opened the big valve on the black water, everything drained, like swoosh.

I think I threw away a good toilet, and bought one I didn't need. It's hard to think when the toilet is overflowing.

I don't get what's happening. I am certain it has to do with water freezing somewhere. The big puzzle is why an over flow in one tank (sink) could relate to an overflow in the other. There could have been a coincidence. That is, I simply wasn't watching the condition in the grey tank--I took my monthly shower yesterday.

Because I can't pin it down it keeps me at a low level of being freaked out. The cure for the symptom is, for very cold weather, turn off the hose, turn on the on-demand water pump connected to the onboard water supply. Then turn it off at the wall switch, then on when I want to use the water to wash or flush.

But, I'd like to solve my problem. Long post, thanks for reading and any suggestions

Hal

P.S. Put a good hair dryer on your list of RV essentials. It's unfrozen stuck valves after freezes, dried carpet, and lots of other stuff. Andy I guess it would dry my hair though I've never used it for that.

[Canadian_Rainbi]

On our previous rig, the bathroom sink emptied into the black tank, which we found useful. Both black and grey were same capacity so it made sense. It ensured that there was sufficient liquid in the black tank to flush efficiently.

In our current rig, when dry camping we use a plastic wash basin the the kitchen sink for dishes and pour the dirty water down the toilet.

[halhill3]

I just want to thank everyone for your help. Yes, my bathroom sink empties into my black water tank, and that was the problem. I made the assumption that grey goes to grey, black to black. Same reason I have a problem playing Wheel of Fortune.

Thanks again.

[stetwood]

halhill3 wrote:

I'm at the border/panhandle of Florida/Alabama. The weather has been in record lows, freezing or below... Then again, another cold snap. I had: water dripping to keep the water hose from freezing shut--but the water tanks wer--I think, yikes--pretty empty; exterior shut off on black water shut; exterior shut off on grey water open and hose exiting at a good angle.

Last night, below freezing. Water in a pencil-lead stream in bathroom sink and kitchen. And, the water overflowed in the bathroom sink, AND was ready to overflow in the toilet--caught that one. On "flushing" the toilet it looks like a cherry bomb had gone off in the tank, the water boiling up I pulled the flush arm. So, I don't pay good attention then.

The cure for the symptom is, for very cold weather, turn off the hose, turn on the on-demand water pump connected to the onboard water supply.
P.S. Put a good hair dryer on your list of RV essentials. It's unfrozen stuck valves after freezes, dried carpet, and lots of other stuff. .

Clean water is precious. Allowing the water to run wasn't in your RV wasn't solving any problems at the temperatures you are experiencing. Many small towns and cities up north where the temperatures have been below 0 for 40 days or more are experimenting frozen pipes. The frost has gone below the normal 6-7 feet water lines are typically buried. They are telling some of their people to run a pencil size lead of water 24/7 until further notice. With 3 more days of sub-zero temps in the next 10 days and nothing above freezing in those 10 day they will let water run probably to at least March.

Now most people would simply unhook and drain the water hose and use their tanks under sub freezing temps. As you have found out that little bit of water dripping winds being quite a bit and floods your tanks if closed. A 1/16 in. flow consumes:943 gallons per day (that's a pencil lead) That is enough water for 9 average Americans, or 300 third world persons. Fresh water is becoming an issue all over, so using it in to keep a water hose from freezing is unconscionable and poor use of resources. Running water in these towns is a much tougher call, first the cost of repair will be 3-4 men at $25/hour and one machine at $75 per hour and the repairs will take 6-10 hours. Second, those people and their neighbors need water and have no alternative, like you do with your tanks as a backup. Plus a city pipe will put out many thousands of gallons per hour.

So next time disconnect that hose, roll it up and use your tanks when it gets below freezing unless the campground owner wants you to run water to prevent THEIR pipes from freezing.

And for thawing out frozen pipes, the best method is to wrap a hot towel or rags around the frozen area. (Never use a torch, and blow driers can put too much heat around plastic pipes) I have lived through 60 days of below zero weather and wind chills of 100- and so speak from a little bit of experience when it comes to keeping water flowing for large herds of livestock. Yes, and that includes pulling water pumps when it is 10 below zero.

[halhill3]

Issue resolved. Thanks again for all the help. And thanks too for not letting me have it for not even saying what model I have--though the problem, and the suggested reasons and fixes, were spot on. I have a class C Minnie Winnie.

So, I bought a new toilet for nothing. My problem was the same one that causes me to lose when watching "Wheel of Fortune", assumptions about where things are coming from--or going. I assumed that grey water went to the grey tank, and black to black. A quick look told me that several of you were right, my bathroom sink drains straight into the black tank. Once I understood that, everything made sense. Also, the idea of keeping a better eye on the levels is, unfortunately, good advice for a RE active RVer like myself.
I need to check my sensors and make sure they are working correctly, maybe put on new ones.
Has anyone ever used the "sensor" cleaner they sell in the RV stores? I would rather try that than crawling around, but don't know if they will "clean" an encrusted sensor. I know they wont fix a bad one.

I'll use the FAQ and forum history from now on before I post. I did a search, but most overflows are valve failures--my original jump-the-gun response.

thanks, Hal

[halhill3]

Thanks for all the replies, they are all helpful and give me some ways to go. I will definitely see where the bathroom sink is plumbed to.

Oh, ha, I was just kidding about the monthly shower.

You all have been very helpful and I appreciate it.

Hal

[JJBIRISH]

you left the water trickle from the bath and kitchen sink…

the bath sink and toilet overflowed because they are plumbed to the black tank…

if both sinks were plumbed to the same tank, both would have backed up since they are at the same level….

I doubt freezing had a thing to do with it, fear of freezing maybe… by leaning the water run the only thing you are protecting from freeze is the supply hose that is outside…
And yes I have left water trickle to keep the water line from freezing in temps well below what the panhandle sees and for much longer time durations and had no fear of the sewer hose freezing unless there was no fall or it had standing water in it…

[fla-gypsy]

GaryWT wrote:
In your case the bathroom sink goes to your black tank as others have said. Your shower and kitchen sink go to your gray. You need to watch your levels to see what tank is filling when water is running.

I think this is your answer

[doxiemom11]

We use heat tape ( not wrapped - per instructions installed straight down the hose) with foam pipe insulation over. We have also been below freezing too many night to count with some days not much above freezing. We have used this method 3 winters now (Alabama & Mississippi) with no problems. We had frost free connection in Alabama, but not here. We had enough heat tape that we also went up the pipe to the faucet to keep that warm. The very first year we did have something freeze and the toilet almost overflowed. Stuff didn't want to go down -- turned our furnace on - let it heat up good and a couple hours later it worked fine. Don't know what froze, but we now leave our furnace set on 50 at night so it will run some during the night and keep everything warmed up.

[RVUSA]

halhill3 wrote:
P.S. Put a good hair dryer on your list of RV essentials. It's unfrozen stuck valves after freezes, dried carpet, and lots of other stuff. Andy I guess it would dry my hair though I've never used it for that.

I defrost the fridge with one. way faster.

Ice suks period. You could buy a 6 foot heat tape for a hose and wrap the base of the toilet and stop most of your problems. Same goes for the drain pipes from the tanks to the dump valves. Either put a ceramic heater in the bay (if you have one) or wrap everything with heat tape.

[full-timer]

halhill3

I had the same experience you speak of also in the panhandle of Florida. No fun waking up 3:am and stepping on wet carpet. My bathroom basin emptied into the black tank. The next day that was my project of plumbing it to go in the grey tank.
Joe

[Executive45]

halhill3 wrote:
I took my monthly shower yesterday.

THAT is wrong on many levels, my friend...:E.. !!!

I would check to make sure you don't have a nest or something else plugging up your air vent. In order to flush properly you need the air vent on the roof to be clear. Empty toilet, use hose and run water into the tank from the roof vent. If it bubbles up out of the roof vent, you've found your problem....Dennis

[GaryWT]

In your case the bathroom sink goes to your black tank as others have said. Your shower and kitchen sink go to your gray. You need to watch your levels to see what tank is filling when water is running.

[Old-Biscuit]

dreamer wrote:
It seems to me that your bathroom sink drain is plumbed to your black tank. Good luck.

dreamer.

That's what I was wondering.......

Which sink are you letting water trickle....bathroom or kitchen?
If bathroom then suspect sink drains to black tank.
If kitchen....then black tank would NOT get full from kitchen sink tricking. BUT toilet overflowing means tank full (over full) because it wasn't dumped.
How big is your black tank and how often to you dump?

I'm not a proponent of letting water run........too many issues can happen.

When it's cold enough to freeze hose, disconnect it (drain/stow) and use on-board pump. Leave it ON.
Run RV furnace to keep warm and open cabinet doors at night to let warm air circulate inside cabinets.

[dreamer]

It seems to me that your bathroom sink drain is plumbed to your black tank. Good luck.

dreamer.