Waldo Fl. speed trap update

[Laman]

I don't have the link to the story but the famous (or infamous) Waldo, Fl. police dept. was dis-banded by the city council on Tuesday. The dept. is still under investigation by the FDLE. Reason given was lack of funds, funny since the fines levied by the police accounted for a significant amount of the city budget.

[Big_Katuna]

It is my understanding of the FDOT manual that they set the max speed limits based on a set of standards including road type, population, pedestrian traffic etc.
the local jurisdictions can lower limits but not increase limits. If a city has a crosswalk, they can lower the limit.

[spoon059]

noplace2 wrote:
Apparently you don't, given what you just stated

"Therefore I usually give you 14 mph over the speed limit. 69 in a 55 won't get you pulled. 70 will."

So why not post the speed limit at 70 and enforce it? And again, just so you know, I have been a staunch supporter of LEOs for most of my 63 years.

I have diverged from that opinion given contact with arrogant,irresponsible,immature and power hungry individuals in LE. And no, nothing personal. Still have never received a citation for anything.

Again... I don't make the rules guy. I don't know how else to say it. I am not responsible for maximum allowable speed limits. I cannot make the speed limit 70 mph.

I do enforce the law, just not strictly. When you had a kid, did you smack his bottom and send him to time out for every single last thing that he did wrong? Doubtful. If you took the time to read my post in its entirety, you would have seen my logic for allow 14 over. I don't really care if you agree with my logic. If you think you can do better, you can apply to your local department and try your hand at it.

Just to give you a different perspective about your view of law enforcement officers...

You state that you generally used to respect LEO's. You had a few bad dealings with a few bad LEO's, so now you don't respect them.

What if I told you that I used to respect humans? Let me give you a look into my afternoon today. I had a suicidal HIV positive man spit on me and try to get his blood on me while I restrained him to prevent him from killing himself. What if I had your mentality, and decided that since I had a bad dealing with this one guy that I no longer respect humans and think they are all scum. That would be unacceptable to you, right?

Okay, that's only one instance Spoon... you are blowing it out of proportion.

Yesterday I arrested a guy for about the 10th time for sneaking into apartment building computer lobbies and watching porn and masturbating in front of people. What if I decided after that experience that humans are scum? Is that more acceptable now?

2 weeks ago I arrested a guy that beat the piss out of his wife because breakfast wasn't prepared fast enough for him. Is it okay now that humans are scum?

Am I, as a police officer, allowed to generalize a large cross section of the population because of bad interactions with those 3 people?

No, of course not. The ACLU would be up my rear end if I made comments that I no longer felt that subsection of people was worth spit because of a few dealings with them.

The chief would fire me and state that I am unfit to be a police officer.

The news media would have a field day with the "rogue cop".

Thankfully, unlike people like YOU noplace2, my coworkers and I don't react like you. I tend to treat each individual as their own person. When I have been burned by one person before, I go in with heightened senses, but treat that experience on its own.

By the way, if you dislike cops so much now, how much MORE pissed would you be if you got pulled over and cited for 1 mph above the speed limit? You seem upset that I don't strictly enforce that law with others... I doubt you would be so upset if you got a break for 14 over though. Then again, I doubt your argument has anything to do with my lenience with the speed limit...

[p220sigman]

I don't know about other towns or states, but the article I linked to earlier clearly indicated that the Florida Department of Transportation set the speed limits in Waldo. "The limits were set at the sole direction — without input from Waldo — of the Florida Department of Transportation, which uses a method of traffic pattern analysis to determine prudent speeds. The 45-mph zone where the majority of the tickets in Waldo were written was created to slow down motorists for pedestrians who cross the highway for the flea market."

Additionally, even thought the PD is no more, there are no plans to change the speed limits. Also from the article, ""We are going to monitor the situation very closely and see how law enforcement handles it," FDOT Traffic Engineer Tony Falotico said about the speed limits in Waldo. "I firmly believe those speed limits are set at what they need to be."

Falotico also said the last study on the U.S. 301 speed limits in Waldo was conducted in 2012 and that FDOT has no plans to conduct another in the near future."

Personally, I've been through there many times and never remotely felt in danger of getting a ticket. I do completely agree that quotas for traffic enforcement are wrong and unethical, but I think you will see the other agencies who have jurisdiction there step up the enforcement efforts because it seems to be what the citizens of the community want them to do.

[wa8yxm]

noplace2 wrote:
Nothing here has persuaded me differently. I will continue doing the posted limit. If you are behind me on a 2 lane and want to go faster, you'll just have to wait your turn for a passing zone.

That is a good policy NoPlace2. HOWEVER.....

I mentioned earlier towns underlined in RED by AAA.

Some of them as you enter the town the limit drops from 55-45, then 35, then 25, so fast you'd have to stand on the brakes with both feet to make it to 25 before you get the ticket. or, the lower speed sign, is behind a tree or bush so it can not be seen from the road. (I recall one intersection where a sign was hidden behind a sign) .

Thus they get you.... Now... The good folks I worked with (Michigan State Police) As far as I know they did NOT engage in that kind of ticketing, and I think I know fairly well.

BUT,, Most of the places that happens are city PDs and some of them.. Well, Some of them I do not feel kindly towards.

[noplace2]

spoon059 wrote:

noplace2 wrote:
I'll ask it for a 3rd time:

If, as you asserted above that most LEOs will ignore 10-15 above the posted, why have speed limits at all?

"Not sure what you want from me here... I don't make the rules, I only enforce them."

Apparently you don't, given what you just stated

"Therefore I usually give you 14 mph over the speed limit. 69 in a 55 won't get you pulled. 70 will."

So why not post the speed limit at 70 and enforce it? And again, just so you know, I have been a staunch supporter of LEOs for most of my 63 years.

I have diverged from that opinion given contact with arrogant,irresponsible,immature and power hungry individuals in LE. And no, nothing personal. Still have never received a citation for anything.

[tegu69]

The town I live in wanted to lower the speed limit (state road) from 40 mph which it has been for as long as I remember, to a much lower speed. They seem to think that if they lowered the speed limit, more people would visit the local shops (on their way to Walmart I guess). The state said they could go to 35, which they did. Traffic travels at the same speed they did before, about 45 average. If they really wanted to slow people down they need a reputation not different signs.

[spoon059]

Big Katuna wrote:

Francesca Knowles wrote:

Big Katuna wrote:
Cities in Florida can set their own speed limits.

Even on State Highways running through town?

I ask because I remember the big drama here when the City of Port Townsend (Washington) wanted to lower the speed limit on the part of SR 20 that runs through town. Couldn't do it without permission from the State, and they STILL didn't get to bring it down as much as they wanted to.

Is it different in Florida?

They must as I doubt a traffic engineer would drop the speed in 20 mph chunks with signs very close together on a straight stretch of six lane road thru an uncongested area.

I'm with Francesca on this... I highly doubt that a city can designate the speed on a state road. They can designate speed limits on local roads, but they have to fall within certain perimeters. For example, a secondary highway can be 45-55 mph... its up to the city to decide 45, 50 or 55... they can't arbitrarily set it at 25. To set it at 25 it would have to be designated a residential roadway and would have to meet certain criteria.

If I remember correctly, there are residences and small commercial areas along those stretches. It has been 8 months since I was through there though. A residential area would justify the 35 to 45 mph limits.

[spoon059]

noplace2 wrote:
I'll ask it for a 3rd time:

If, as you asserted above that most LEOs will ignore 10-15 above the posted, why have speed limits at all?

Not sure what you want from me here... I don't make the rules, I only enforce them. I try to enforce them as fairly as possible, with as much common sense as possible. Like I stated before, legally I could pull you over for doing 56 in a 55. I don't think that is fair, for reasons I listed above.

I could pull you over for 60 in a 55... but then I would be pulling over (or attempting to pull over) about 90% of drivers. I've gone fishing before... I have NEVER caught every fish in the sea.

I could pull people over for doing 64 in a 55... but in all honesty I usually drive about 9 mph over the speed limit. I think it is hypocritical to pull people over at a speed that I tend to drive.

Therefore I usually give you 14 mph over the speed limit. 69 in a 55 won't get you pulled. 70 will.

That is just how I do it. I know that the general consensus is that all cops are A-holes and looking for any reason to mess with people. That's not true. I also love the general statements that we always target people who live out of state for tickets. I generally try to give warnings to out of state people, because I think that EVERYONE should have the right to have a trial if they want... even though I know without a doubt they are guilty of the infraction that I issued a citation for.

We have to have some rules, or else it would be anarchy. If you give people an inch, they will take a yard. Legislators have to set some precedent, some limit. It is then up to executive branch (cops and courts in this case) to determine how they are going to enforce this. Again... 56 in a 55 is speeding. I doubt a cop would write for 1 over. I really doubt and court around me will convict for 1 over. There is a gray area. That gray area depends on a lot of circumstances, most of which are beyond my control. I can only enforce law with my own sense. My sense tells me that 70 in a 55 isn't reasonable. That is where I draw my line in the sand.

I cannot speak for anyone else in those regards. When I am not in my local area, I try to keep within 10 to 12 mph of the posted limit. If I see signs warning of STRICT ENFORCEMENT, I usually get to within 4 or 5 of the speed limit.

In 18 years of driving I have 1 speed ticket and stopped one other time for speeding and was given a warning. If I am doing 67 in a 55 and get stopped and ticketed, I don't blame the cop. I make a conscious decision to adhere to a set speed when I drive, and nobody but me is responsible for that decision. If a cop has the *audacity* (read that sarcastically) to enforce the law on me, I accept responsibility. It is a calculated gamble. You win some, you lose some.

[Big_Katuna]

Francesca Knowles wrote:

Big Katuna wrote:
Cities in Florida can set their own speed limits.

Even on State Highways running through town?

I ask because I remember the big drama here when the City of Port Townsend (Washington) wanted to lower the speed limit on the part of SR 20 that runs through town. Couldn't do it without permission from the State, and they STILL didn't get to bring it down as much as they wanted to.

Is it different in Florida?

They must as I doubt a traffic engineer would drop the speed in 20 mph chunks with signs very close together on a straight stretch of six lane road thru an uncongested area.

[noplace2]

Nothing here has persuaded me differently. I will continue doing the posted limit. If you are behind me on a 2 lane and want to go faster, you'll just have to wait your turn for a passing zone.

If I'm going slower than the posted I will pull over at the earliest opportunity and let you by.

[Francesca_Knowl]

Big Katuna wrote:
Cities in Florida can set their own speed limits.

Even on State Highways running through town?

I ask because I remember the big drama here when the City of Port Townsend (Washington) wanted to lower the speed limit on the part of SR 20 that runs through town. Couldn't do it without permission from the State, and they STILL didn't get to bring it down as much as they wanted to.

Is it different in Florida?

[navegator]

When you have elected city majors and politicians (crooks) and an elected chief of police (semi crook) it is very easy to swing the chief to the dark side, on the other side you have those that have gone through the ranks to become chiefs and you have a completlly diferent situation.

Start with the people that run the city and then the chief if they are elected, and you normally have the mood of the town police force, the crooks that run the department and good police oficers that have taken the oath to protect and serve to heart, the chief gives the officers an order and it is acted upon.

Do not blame the officers doing what the crooked politicians want them to do, they have been given an order and that has to be acted on, whether they like it or not, that there are crooked cops, yes it is harder to find persons that have integrity and honesty today than it was in the past, a lot of police deparments have had to lower the standards for recruiting, if they got busted for dope or minor infractions when teenagers it is brushed aside, that is why they love to recriut Marines.

Do not blame the officer doing the job blame the politician.

navegator

[wa8yxm]

noplace2 wrote:


If you are indeed a LEO I have to ask the same question. Why do we have speed limits at all?

I am not a police officer but I did go to school, where I learned the answer to that question:

Because legislature passed a law and the Executive (Governor mostly) Signed it and it took effect..

Of course that applies to ALL laws, save that some are signed by a Governor, Some a mayor, or county executive, and some by POTUS.

But that is why we have speed limits.

Now, if you want to know why legislature passed the law.. Can not help you since I am also not a congress critter.

[p220sigman]

Here is an interesting article about the situation in Waldo. It does seem to clear up some of the questions regarding the speed limit there and who set it (Florida DOT according to the article). I found it interesting that it indicated that 99% of the tickets written between January 1, 2013 and September 9, 2014 were for 10 MPH over or more and 83% were in a 45 MPH zone.

[ford_truck_guy]

My thoughts are this - - IF you don't like the rules , either move away or VOTE the other way... Rules in my eyes are a necessary evil.. To the LEOS on this forum, thanks for putting up with all the BS in your average day of work....