Why not to buy used.

[Terryallan]

I know there are MANY on her who say. NEVER buy new, always buy used RVs. Myself. I always buy new, and here is an example why.

This week we were camping beside a man who had just bought a used 2015 TT. Over the course of the trip. He found out the toilet had been frozen, and had to be repaired. Then the water heater would not work, and the fresh tank was missing the plug. the list goes on.
Best thing about his trip is that he lived close by. So he didn't have to stay in a unusable TT. As soon as he fixed one thing. He found another. Didn't get to stay even one night at the CG.

That boys and girls. Is why I always suggest you buy new.

[Terryallan]

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Have you ever considered the opportunity cost of not living your life to the fullest? You only live once and you can't take it with you.

Yes, and that has nothing to do with the truth of my comment.

It most certainly does apply. Life is not a zero sum game IMO. How do you quantify "satisfaction" and "enjoyment". You might be a guy who loves buying used goods and get great satisfaction out of the money saved. Others may feel that they work hard for their money and want to spend on items they perceive offer them real value and they like the feeling of "new".

Is one right vs the other? It all depends on your situation. As a former CPA, surely you must have offered sound financial advice to your clients. Would you offer the same advice to a client who lots of disposable income and a secure career vs one who has lesser income and whose career may not be quite as robust? I would think not.

Not everyone wants or needs to buy used. I'm sure most people appreciate the fact that new always depreciates more relative to used. But there are other tangibles that affect the purchase decision.

As I stated, not living your life to its fullest is also a real opportunity cost. And indeed you can't take your money with you. So my advice is take a look at your own situation. If you're not sure, then talk to your financial adviser and do a lot of research.

We did just that. I'm 56 and just retired with three 6 yr old kids. I bought a brand new F450 (financed with an unsecured 2% loan so I can keep my profits in the stock market going) and then a fifth wheel for cash. We're going to spend our summers traveling with our kids, showing them North America and bonding with them to build lifetime memories. How much is that worth to me? Enough to retire early and give up many years of lost income because like I stated above, the opportunity cost of missing out on all that is too high for me.

Could we have done all that with a used trailer? Yes, but for what we were looking at there were only 2 used units available on rvtrader and they were both about 2k miles away and only about $7-8k net less than the cost of a new one. It's not worth it to me to schlep across the country to buy a used unit without a warranty that's been through who knows what.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Yep. Some people think if they talk more they become more convincing. Basically, once again, I didn't tell anybody to buy an RV or to not buy an RV. I didn't tell them to buy new or to buy used. I just pointed out that depreciation is a real cost even if they want to deny that it is a real cost. The opportunity cost of not living a full life does not negate that.

Again, each individual needs to do what's right for them. Opportunity cost is a real cost. So is the "cost" of living an unfulfilled life. YOU need to determine their true values. Everyone's financial circumstances are different.

BTW there's more to life than $$$. And you can't take it with you.

Yep, yep. Life is too short to short your self.

[2gypsies1]

I'm sure you've all read this one:

http://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29545648/gotomsg/29546219.cfm#29546219

[Lexx]

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Have you ever considered the opportunity cost of not living your life to the fullest? You only live once and you can't take it with you.

Yes, and that has nothing to do with the truth of my comment.

It most certainly does apply. Life is not a zero sum game IMO. How do you quantify "satisfaction" and "enjoyment". You might be a guy who loves buying used goods and get great satisfaction out of the money saved. Others may feel that they work hard for their money and want to spend on items they perceive offer them real value and they like the feeling of "new".

Is one right vs the other? It all depends on your situation. As a former CPA, surely you must have offered sound financial advice to your clients. Would you offer the same advice to a client who lots of disposable income and a secure career vs one who has lesser income and whose career may not be quite as robust? I would think not.

Not everyone wants or needs to buy used. I'm sure most people appreciate the fact that new always depreciates more relative to used. But there are other tangibles that affect the purchase decision.

As I stated, not living your life to its fullest is also a real opportunity cost. And indeed you can't take your money with you. So my advice is take a look at your own situation. If you're not sure, then talk to your financial adviser and do a lot of research.

We did just that. I'm 56 and just retired with three 6 yr old kids. I bought a brand new F450 (financed with an unsecured 2% loan so I can keep my profits in the stock market going) and then a fifth wheel for cash. We're going to spend our summers traveling with our kids, showing them North America and bonding with them to build lifetime memories. How much is that worth to me? Enough to retire early and give up many years of lost income because like I stated above, the opportunity cost of missing out on all that is too high for me.

Could we have done all that with a used trailer? Yes, but for what we were looking at there were only 2 used units available on rvtrader and they were both about 2k miles away and only about $7-8k net less than the cost of a new one. It's not worth it to me to schlep across the country to buy a used unit without a warranty that's been through who knows what.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Yep. Some people think if they talk more they become more convincing. Basically, once again, I didn't tell anybody to buy an RV or to not buy an RV. I didn't tell them to buy new or to buy used. I just pointed out that depreciation is a real cost even if they want to deny that it is a real cost. The opportunity cost of not living a full life does not negate that.

Again, each individual needs to do what's right for them. Opportunity cost is a real cost. So is the "cost" of living an unfulfilled life. YOU need to determine their true values. Everyone's financial circumstances are different.

BTW there's more to life than $$$. And you can't take it with you.

[TomG2]

Prices are set by the marketplace, not some predetermined depreciation table. This is the simple reason that new units cost more than old ones. They are worth the difference. The marketplace will take care of the rest. The exceptions prove the rule. If a buyer gets a great deal from a dealer or an individual, then they got a great deal Which one has the greater possibility of hidden faults like water damage or shoddy repairs? New or used?

[2oldman]

Lantley wrote:
You guys are all missing the point concerning the value of your RV.
Regardless of what you paid, regardless of what it's worth , new or used none of that really matters.
The only way to get value out of your RV is to use it.

x2. And that is exactly the point. When I bought new I couldn't care less about depreciation. That was 15 years ago, and I still own it.

[DallasSteve]

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Have you ever considered the opportunity cost of not living your life to the fullest? You only live once and you can't take it with you.

Yes, and that has nothing to do with the truth of my comment.

It most certainly does apply. Life is not a zero sum game IMO. How do you quantify "satisfaction" and "enjoyment". You might be a guy who loves buying used goods and get great satisfaction out of the money saved. Others may feel that they work hard for their money and want to spend on items they perceive offer them real value and they like the feeling of "new".

Is one right vs the other? It all depends on your situation. As a former CPA, surely you must have offered sound financial advice to your clients. Would you offer the same advice to a client who lots of disposable income and a secure career vs one who has lesser income and whose career may not be quite as robust? I would think not.

Not everyone wants or needs to buy used. I'm sure most people appreciate the fact that new always depreciates more relative to used. But there are other tangibles that affect the purchase decision.

As I stated, not living your life to its fullest is also a real opportunity cost. And indeed you can't take your money with you. So my advice is take a look at your own situation. If you're not sure, then talk to your financial adviser and do a lot of research.

We did just that. I'm 56 and just retired with three 6 yr old kids. I bought a brand new F450 (financed with an unsecured 2% loan so I can keep my profits in the stock market going) and then a fifth wheel for cash. We're going to spend our summers traveling with our kids, showing them North America and bonding with them to build lifetime memories. How much is that worth to me? Enough to retire early and give up many years of lost income because like I stated above, the opportunity cost of missing out on all that is too high for me.

Could we have done all that with a used trailer? Yes, but for what we were looking at there were only 2 used units available on rvtrader and they were both about 2k miles away and only about $7-8k net less than the cost of a new one. It's not worth it to me to schlep across the country to buy a used unit without a warranty that's been through who knows what.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Yep. Some people think if they talk more they become more convincing. Basically, once again, I didn't tell anybody to buy an RV or to not buy an RV. I didn't tell them to buy new or to buy used. I just pointed out that depreciation is a real cost even if they want to deny that it is a real cost. The opportunity cost of not living a full life does not negate that.

[Lexx]

DallasSteve wrote:

Lexx wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Have you ever considered the opportunity cost of not living your life to the fullest? You only live once and you can't take it with you.

Yes, and that has nothing to do with the truth of my comment.

It most certainly does apply. Life is not a zero sum game IMO. How do you quantify "satisfaction" and "enjoyment". You might be a guy who loves buying used goods and get great satisfaction out of the money saved. Others may feel that they work hard for their money and want to spend on items they perceive offer them real value and they like the feeling of "new".

Is one right vs the other? It all depends on your situation. As a former CPA, surely you must have offered sound financial advice to your clients. Would you offer the same advice to a client who lots of disposable income and a secure career vs one who has lesser income and whose career may not be quite as robust? I would think not.

Not everyone wants or needs to buy used. I'm sure most people appreciate the fact that new always depreciates more relative to used. But there are other tangibles that affect the purchase decision.

As I stated, not living your life to its fullest is also a real opportunity cost. And indeed you can't take your money with you. So my advice is take a look at your own situation. If you're not sure, then talk to your financial adviser and do a lot of research.

We did just that. I'm 56 and just retired with three 6 yr old kids. I bought a brand new F450 (financed with an unsecured 2% loan so I can keep my profits in the stock market going) and then a fifth wheel for cash. We're going to spend our summers traveling with our kids, showing them North America and bonding with them to build lifetime memories. How much is that worth to me? Enough to retire early and give up many years of lost income because like I stated above, the opportunity cost of missing out on all that is too high for me.

Could we have done all that with a used trailer? Yes, but for what we were looking at there were only 2 used units available on rvtrader and they were both about 2k miles away and only about $7-8k net less than the cost of a new one. It's not worth it to me to schlep across the country to buy a used unit without a warranty that's been through who knows what.

Sorry for the long winded post.

[Trekkar]

Lots of debate, and I doubt that anyone's opinion has been changed. What we do have in common is to get out and enjoy each of our own travel homes.

[Terryallan]

DallasSteve wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

DallasSteve wrote:
As a former CPA I must comment that depreciation is a cost of owning an RV even if you choose to ignore it to make yourself feel better. If you spend $100,000 on a motorhome and you keep it 50 years until you die you still lost the use of that $100,000 for other purposes. If you don't care about that extra $100,000, that's fine, but depreciation is still a real cost to anyone wanting to get into RVs.

Actually that makes no sense. ANYTHING you buy ties that money up so you can't use it for anything else. Sad that you have to put money before anything. And a question. Who did you buy your RV for? You? or the next guy. I bought mine for me.

It does make sense. Where did you get your degree in Accounting? Maybe you can get a refund for the tuition.

I got my degree in common sense. New lasts longer than used. New gives less trouble than used. New looks better than used. New feels better than used. New smells better than used. New is better than used in every way. Before we bought this TT new. We looked at used. Seats cushions were flat, J sofas sagged, and 99 percent had a musty smell. Skylights were dingy, Roof vents, fridge, and just vents were brittle from the sun. they all needed new tires, 5 new tires. and they all needed waxing, or were faded. and they were only a few years old, and the kicker was. They were only a couple thousand less than new. So for a few grand more. ALL of that disappeared.

I didn't buy it for an investment. I bought it to camp in. I fully intend to use it until I can no longer camp. when that happens. I hope some one will think they are getting a good deal on a worn out TT. In fact it will still look new. Because I take care of it. IF I worried about depreciation. I wouldn't buy anything.

In truth. My TT has paid for itself in reduced vacation costs. As a CPA you can understand. A week at Myrtle Beach in the TT $600. A week at MB in the condo next door $3000.00. Now to me that is a $2400.00 saving. Also a weekend in the mountains in a motel $300.00. A weekend in the mountains in the TT $70.00. So it didn't take too many trips for the TT to pay off. Had to have a truck you say? Had a truck any way. If you own a house, you need a truck. Houses need more maint than TTs. So that can't be figured in.

To be totally honest. The TT took more of my money this year. Not because of any thing it did, other than become a chew toy for DW's dog. She chewed the brake, tank, and front wires off of it. And I had to get all that replaced, and build a fence around it.

So. If y'all want to buy used because you think it is cheaper. I'm good with that. But in the long run. not as cheap as you think. After all you have bought a 5 or 6 year old AC, A 5 or 6 year old water heater, fridge, and every other component inside, and all of the roof fixture have been sitting in the sun and drying out, and it don't take that long.

[TomG2]

Lantley wrote:

I simply bought it to use it and enjoy the RV lifestyle without a care in the world

Someone who "Gets it"! Well said.

[Lantley]

You guys are all missing the point concerning the value of your RV.
Regardless of what you paid, regardless of what it's worth , new or used none of that really matters.
The only way to get value out of your RV is to use it. If you are using your RV often you are getting value out of it.
If your RV sits idle for long periods you are wasting your money.
I use my RV regularly. I am happy with the life remaining in the unit and its condition.
I keep my RV at home and tinker with it by doing various mods etc.
I don't evaluate it worth via my bank account. I evaluate its worth by the amount I use it and the enjoyment I get from using it.
I would not be happier if I had more $$$ in the bank and less RV time. Nor would I be happy if I had a bargain price RV that was not the one I wanted.
I'm not a financial guru nor am I on skid row.
There are certainly wiser ways to spend my money. There are also investments I could have made with my RV funds. But none of those would have given me the enjoyment,experiences and satisfaction that I get from my RV.
An economy car, a tent and a few nights in a hotel could have saved me a bundle and allowed for a few more investments.
I did not by my RV to improve my portfolio or my financial status.
In some ways the RV could be seen as a big irrational waste of money.
But I don't see it that way. As long as I am able to use my RV on a regular basis I am getting my money's worth and then some.




I simply bought it to use it and enjoy the RV lifestyle without a care in the world

[Mont_G_J]

If I had tons of money I'd buy new.
If I didn't have tons of money but wanted to go camping anyway, I'd buy used.

[DallasSteve]

I don't understand why some people here are upset by my post about depreciation. I didn't say anyone should buy or not buy an RV. I didn't say anyone should buy used or new. I just said (paraphrasing) "Don't kid yourself. Depreciation is always a cost of owning an RV." Year after year, it's a part of your real cost of this lifestyle.

Even if you never plan to sell it. Even if a parent gives it to you free. In that case you have what I call "opportunity depreciation" because you could sell the RV and use that money for something else. And every year the realistic price of that RV will decrease (except for those "super traders" here who can buy an RV and then sell it for more than they paid). That decrease in value is called depreciation and you pay for it with your money.

Back to the topic of this thread, for me one of the biggest drivers in this decision is sales tax. Here in Texas if I buy a $100,000 motor home Austin gets $6,250 for doing nothing. I can't re-sell that sales tax to someone else. It has no value. It's gone. I love my state, but I don't think that's fair. If I buy used at half price (about 7 years old at a dealer) the governor only gets $3,125 and I get to keep the other $3,125. That's on top of the $50,000 I saved in purchase price. I can do a lot of repairs for $53,125. Looking at the photos on this forum I see a lot of members here that have very nice motor homes that are at least 10 years old (or trailers).

[Bumpyroad]

TomG2 wrote:


The point is, many of the "Buy used" crowd are bragging that they purchased a lightly used unit. In other words, the closer it comes to being new, the better it is? Why not go all the way with that thinking and eliminate any chance that "lightly used" might be a lie?

Oh MY?????
bumpy

[Grit_dog]

9 pages in a day! Nicely done. This one got legs!
I'll say I agree w terryallen. BUYNEW!
Someone has to or I wouldn't be able to save money buying used.