Dog breed descrimination - showing up late un-announced

[MartyW]

Hi to all,

We've been camping with our German Shepherd dog for over 30 years (of course different shepherds along the way and always one at a time). We had always stayed in public / state parks in the past so we were not aware of the breed descrimination issues until we boutht a 34' TT last summer with the hope of doing some extended stay trips during semi-retirement.

We're scheduled to get on the road within the next few weeks and I've worked out some good routes and stops using the many mobil apps and internet, but in the process we've had quite a few CGs tell us that we can't stay with our shepherd. We're speaking mostly of FL for now. I've also heard that in many cases the breed restrictions aren't always inforced, but we haven't tested anyone or any CG on this.

So my question is if we're on a trip and can't make it that day to our planned CG that has accepted our dog in advance, and we pop in un-announced at a CG that has an anti-Shepherd policy (in late afternoon / evening), has anyone seen any of these restrictive CGs allow one of the banned breeds for just a one night overnight stay? We haven't tried this yet but we've been told that it does work in some cases.

Many thanks in advance for your experiences about this.
Marty

[toedtoes]

Pawz4me wrote:

Crowe wrote:
I crate-trained a 9 year old bluetick coonhound. I also trained him to break from scent. It's difficult but you CAN break inbred habits and traits.

Sure you can. But IME the overwhelming majority of people who are just looking for a good family dog don't want to make the job any more difficult than it has to be. Especially people who have young kids -- they generally simply do not have time to do a ton of training. They're doing good if they teach a dog a few basic commands, maybe get to a beginner obedience class. And that's why I'll always advise people to consider things like a herding breed's desire to herd (including a tendency to nip), a beagle's tendency to bay and raid trash cans, many terriers' instinct to dig, etc. Having spent years working in rescue, I want to stack the odds as much as possible in favor of the person getting a dog they're going to be willing and able to keep.

I agree with that. HOWEVER, where it gets muddy is when your sole basis for that "instinct" is simply based on a dog's appearance with no knowledge of its actual heritage (breeds).

For example, as a rescue, I might have a very nice long haired large black dog show up. Do I base my conversations with potential homes on the herding instinct of a Belgian sheepdog? Or do I base my conversations on the protectiveness of a shepherd? Or excessive barking of a collie?

There is no substitution for direct observation of an individual dog versus a generalization based on a breed (that may or may not even be part of the dog's genetic makeup).

[Pawz4me]

Crowe wrote:
I crate-trained a 9 year old bluetick coonhound. I also trained him to break from scent. It's difficult but you CAN break inbred habits and traits.

Sure you can. But IME the overwhelming majority of people who are just looking for a good family dog don't want to make the job any more difficult than it has to be. Especially people who have young kids -- they generally simply do not have time to do a ton of training. They're doing good if they teach a dog a few basic commands, maybe get to a beginner obedience class. And that's why I'll always advise people to consider things like a herding breed's desire to herd (including a tendency to nip), a beagle's tendency to bay and raid trash cans, many terriers' instinct to dig, etc. Having spent years working in rescue, I want to stack the odds as much as possible in favor of the person getting a dog they're going to be willing and able to keep.

[toedtoes]

BCSnob wrote:
I've been trying to ignore the comment that this behavior is normal (and accepted) as part of a herding dog when it is just another bad habit. No different than chasing cars, chasing cats, food guarding, marking in the house, etc. Dogs can easily distinguish the difference between children and livestock; they just need to be taught the rules. People just seem to accept that because it looks like herding, a dog from a herding breed cannot be taught to not do this.

I can teach my working bred Border Collies to not work cattle, ducks, chickens, children, deer, cats, etc and only work sheep. So why can't non-working bred dogs be taught to not work children???

Because when the behavior keeps kids sitting quietly on the couch instead of tearing through the house like a banshee, it's not such a bad behavior on the dog's part... 🙂

[Crowe]

I crate-trained a 9 year old bluetick coonhound. I also trained him to break from scent. It's difficult but you CAN break inbred habits and traits.

[BCSnob]

I've been trying to ignore the comment that this behavior is normal (and accepted) as part of a herding dog when it is just another bad habit. No different than chasing cars, chasing cats, food guarding, marking in the house, etc. Dogs can easily distinguish the difference between children and livestock; they just need to be taught the rules. People just seem to accept that because it looks like herding, a dog from a herding breed cannot be taught to not do this.

I can teach my working bred Border Collies to not work cattle, ducks, chickens, children, deer, cats, etc and only work sheep. So why can't non-working bred dogs be taught to not work children???

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

BCSnob wrote:
Haven't we all heard time and time again...

If it looks like a Golden it will retrieve birds
If it looks like a St Bernard it will rescue people in avalanches
If it looks like a Newfie it will pull fishing nets from the sea
If it looks like a dachshund it will hunt badgers
etc

So clearly if it looks like a pitbull it will bite:R

GASP!! You forgot "If it's a herding breed, it will herd/nip your children"

😉

[BCSnob]

Haven't we all heard time and time again...

If it looks like a Golden it will retrieve birds
If it looks like a St Bernard it will rescue people in avalanches
If it looks like a Newfie it will pull fishing nets from the sea
If it looks like a dachshund it will hunt badgers
etc

So clearly if it looks like a pitbull it will bite:R

[toedtoes]

That's exactly the problem. If other people "see" the dog as being pitbull (or any other restricted breed), then how do you prove otherwise? Your dog can be confiscated under a law, denied coverage under the insurance, kicked out of an RV park, etc., based on appearance - regardless of the actual truth of registry.

Growing up, I had a purebred boxer. She was a rescue, so there were no papers proving her breed. She was a very "poor" boxer - her nose too short, her body too squat, solid white, etc. This was in the days that pitbulls were just starting to get a bad rap but it wasn't widespread. She was the sweetest dog that our family EVER owned. She had pet rats, newborn kittens, macaws, and babies/toddlers crawl all over her and she'd just lay there completely still.

Today, she'd be impounded as a pitbull under these breed restrictions and there'd be no way to prove she wasn't a pitbull.

That is why breed restrictions are wrong and fail.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

toedtoes wrote:

So, how do you CORRECTLY report your mixed breed to the insurance company? They say you have to go by appearance (and often require a photo), but you're just as likely to be accurate if you pulled two breeds out of a hat.

I also think this is why rescue orgs often identify their dogs as "anything but pitbull" (even though that's the obvious dominant breed). So that adopters can say "Rhodesian Ridgeback mix".

But in all fairness, there's the flip side of the coin: a lot of people assume that "brindle" means pitbull. My son owned a purebred Catahoula: brown brindle with lots of white. Just a great, friendly dog..... but people were often scared of him thinking he was a pitbull.

[4X4Dodger]

SDcampowneroperator wrote:
Breed & size discrimination is a property choice, in my experience, not an insurance liability requirement.

Well it is definitely an insurance issue but will be found in the exclusions not as a requirement. And in some cases it is local law as here in Minot...Pit Bulls and similar breeds are not allowed in the city.

[MartyW]

I totally agree that they instinctively know what is important and I'm so glad to hear that story. Hopefully ours would react the same way. He's a laid back guy like so many of them.

[toedtoes]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Most 'banned breed' notifications we encountered also included 'any mix of said breeds'

Dobie, Pit Bull, German Shepard, Chow, Rottie, Huskies, Boxers, Malamute & Wolf Hybrids are typical ones on list..........even have seen Weimaraners & Dalmations

This is the biggest problem with these breed bans: "Any mix of said breeds".

I've got two rescue dogs. Their parents were unknown. I have NO idea what they are. I SUSPECT that Moose-dog is shepherd and dobie at least, but for all I know he could have twenty different breeds in him and none of them shepherd or dobie.

I don't even SUSPECT with Bat-dog. She is so much a mix that any true identification is impossible. However, because she's square, solid, and large, people automatically "see" pitbull in her. She may or may not have any pitbull in her. She could have boxer and bulldog instead. She could have sharpei and beagle. Who knows. But if something happens, she will be labeled a pitbull.

Another thing to point out in regards to "breed restrictions" is that they usually insist you identify TWO breeds for a mix breed dog. You can't identify the dog as a "lab mix", you must identify it as a "lab-other breed" based simply on its appearance.

Remember that every breed was developed out of a different breed(s). A boxer/bulldog mix can look a lot like a pitbull but not have any pitbull in it. In addition, rarely is a mixed breed dog a 50-50 mix. Far more often, they are a Heinz 57 mix with more than 4 breeds involved.

So, how do you CORRECTLY report your mixed breed to the insurance company? They say you have to go by appearance (and often require a photo), but you're just as likely to be accurate if you pulled two breeds out of a hat. No sense adding that third, fourth, fifth....twentieth breed in the identification, because they believe that all dogs are half-breeds.

[toedtoes]

MartyW wrote:
Now, if someone were to break into our camper while we weren't there but the dog was, then that might be an issue for the breaker-inner.

You might be surprised. German Shepherds are smart dogs.

Years ago, I had a wonderful, beautiful purebred shepherd (her owners divorced and neither wanted her anymore - she was 2 yrs old). One Saturday, my sister was going to stop by in the afternoon to drop some furniture off. I had spent the morning out at a local dog show. When I arrived home, I found my sister and her friend had already arrived. When they realized I wasn't home, my sister went into the backyard, climbed through the dog door into the house, opened the front door, let her friend in, brought in the furniture, and then hung out watching tv with the door wide open for over an hour waiting for me.

When I came in, the first question was "where's my dog?" My sister said "she's with you" and I said "no, she isn't. She was here, where is she?" I then proceeded to search the house. In the narrow space between the bed and back wall of the bedroom was my wonderful beautiful shepherd. She had been there since the moment my sister had climbed in through the dog door.

My sister made a lot of comments about my "wussy" dog, but I realized I had the smartest dog in the world - she was always at my side and protective when I was there, but she wasn't going to get herself killed over a TV.

That's one of the things I love about shepherds - they know what's important.

[AZPops]

Nevur mind. ...


Pops

[Crowe]

Do breed restrictions apply if it is a service dog?

That would be discrimination against the owner of the dog. The only request you'll get from here is that it's a BONAFIDE service dog, not one that someone slaps a service vest on to skirt the rules. That ruins it for legitimate service animals.