Dog to dog aggression while camping

[campn4walleye]

We just completed 4 wonderful days at a county CG on a very nice fishing lake.

The moment we arrived, we noticed a family with a pit bull running loose. I asked them to put it on a leash as we have dogs too and our weim doesn't always like other dogs and is protective of our cavalier. (There is a leash rule) but it seems it is not enforced. The camp host lets his little pom run free.

Anyhow, we got set up and the pit bull's owner comes over and says he's sorry he doesn't have a leash or tie out line. In truth, the dog doesn't even have a collar! I'm annoyed, but was civil, and warned him to keep it out of our site.

Naturally, they let their 4 y/o come over with the dog. Immediately, our dog rushed the dog and there was a quick fight. The guy didn't even know it happened until he heard us yell.

What would you do? Our dog is so quiet and sweet, unless a dog comes into his area without being properly introduced. If they had met in passing, he would have been fine.

How in the world can an owner maintain responsibility for the dog without a collar and leash?

Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks for listening.

[Pawz4me]

joeshmoe wrote:
Perhaps. But you're suggesting that ANY dog that snarls in protest is automatically justified in doing so. Why doesn't my dog snarl and get protective of his space when another dog comes around?

Because he's a Lab. Different groups of dogs (sporting, hunting, herding, etc.) have different play styles. The sporting breeds in general have no clue about personal space, and many other dogs find that behavior totally obnoxious.

I was in Petsmart the other day with my dog and we're browsing around. Well, there was a lady with a silver (or gray) lab. Beautiful dog. I wanted to talk to her about him, but he wasn't having any of it. My dog was just as curious. Nope. Her dog got all defensive and started growling. Really? In a pet store? Where there are very likely to be other dogs and you bring your "don't come around me or my owner" snarling dog? Sorry. That doesn't jive with me.

The fact that so many dogs seem to be telling your dog to back off certainly makes me wonder how well socialized to other dogs yours is, or what kind of signals he's giving off that are making other dogs wary. It seems to be a routine occurrence. Of course, as you say about the OP, we're only getting one side of your story.

[joeshmoe]

You had to say it twice. That's very passionate.:)
Anyway, that doesn't describe my dog at all. Although, there those that it does. The OP gave no indication that the pit acted aggressively.

I guess the general consensus here is keep your dog away from my dog and I'll keep mine away and never the 'tween shall meet and everyone will be happy. That's like saying I like dogs, but only my dog. Just keep yours away. Okay this was fun and all, but time to move along. Don't want anyone to start snarling at me and feel like I'm invading their space.:B

[Finally_Time]

..

[Finally_Time]

joeshmoe, if your dog runs up to other dogs without an invitation; it is your dog that is not properly socialized. As a former protection dog trainer I can tell you my dogs were extremely well socialized, but if they were on leash and an unleashed dog ran up to them they would warn it off with body language and a low growl. If the loose dog continued it would be seen as a threat to either their handler or themselves and they would take care of that threat. Dogs are a pack animal, they do not like to be run at by others that are not part of their pack. Also anyone who has handled dogs can tell you many times a "friendly" loose dog will attack a leashed dog, it seems to bring out their prey instinct. And it is amazing how many people are clueless about their dog's behavior. I can't count the number of times people have said their dog is friendly and wants to play, when their dog is straining at the leash with every hair standing up and its lip curled into a wrinkle next to its nose.

[joeshmoe]

Perhaps. But you're suggesting that ANY dog that snarls in protest is automatically justified in doing so. Why doesn't my dog snarl and get protective of his space when another dog comes around?

I was in Petsmart the other day with my dog and we're browsing around. Well, there was a lady with a silver (or gray) lab. Beautiful dog. I wanted to talk to her about him, but he wasn't having any of it. My dog was just as curious. Nope. Her dog got all defensive and started growling. Really? In a pet store? Where there are very likely to be other dogs and you bring your "don't come around me or my owner" snarling dog? Sorry. That doesn't jive with me.

Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that even well socialized dogs should just run around and up on you or other digs and hang out. I'm talking about those quick, friendly encounters. You know, like when you pass by other people in the CG or wherever you happen to be and say "Hello". What's that, you say? But that's not how people are anymore? They prefer to keep to themselves like hermits nowadays?
Hmm...no wonder society is so disconnected.

BTW, bear in mind, as is often the case, we're only getting one side of the story from the OP. Just something to consider. 🙂

[BCSnob]

Perhaps the problem is not with the dogs who get defensive when other dogs invade their personal space without invitation; perhaps the problem is with the dogs that were never taught (or learned) to respect personal space? You know those dogs who think every dog wants to play with it and when the other dog does not respond in kind it tries harder and gets closer ignoring the snarls. Dogs that never learned proper pack etiquette.

[joeshmoe]

I didn't turn anything upside down. Both of you completely misunderstood my point. You're not looking at it objectively. It's not about cleaning up after other dogs. It's not owners that let theirs dogs roam around campgrounds unleashed. It's about bringing an improperly socialized dog into an environment where he might get aggressive regardless of who instigates it.
Im sorry. Please tell me how the pit acted aggressively? Maybe I missed the part where he became defensive and aggressive and started the fight.

I deal with this ALL the time. I just accept the fact that some people don't take the time to train and socialize their dogs. There's ALWAYS at least 3 or 4 dogs at the beach that don't like to have their "space" violated and therefore get aggressive/defensive and try to start a fight. My lab just shrugs it off like "what was his problem?" and we continue on. IMO, shouldn't be taking a dog out into public that reacts that way. But people do and I deal with it. Again, not justifying the pit owner not heeding the rules, but that wasn't my point.

[joeshmoe]

You arbitrarily spray dogs that just "come around"? That's seems a little excessive. Can't imagine another dog owner doing that. Geez.

[BCSnob]

Hopefully, you are spraying the owners of these k-9s.

[Monaco_Montclai]

for the owners of such k-9, I carry some spray. works for me.now its all happy-camping

[Happytraveler]

BCSnob wrote:

joeshmoe wrote:
Essentially, you told the owner to leash his dog because you haven't fully socialized yours.

Our first Border Collie was very well socialized with other dogs, enjoyed meeting other dogs. That is until the day a loose dog at a park came running over to us with our leashed dog. The owner yelled "he's friendly"; that dog immediately jumped our dog (no warning, straight on top of our dog). Our dog had to crawl under a park bench to prevent the loose dog from continuing to attack; we were unable to stop the strange dog and his leash (even once dropped by us) put him at a disadvantage. After that event our dog distrusted every strange dog that ran towards him. After that event he was always on the defensive when meeting loose strange dogs and his defensive posture made meetings tense with every new dog.

I guess you would say we failed in the socialization of our dog because he distrusted strange dogs after he got attacked by a strange dog.

That's exactly what happened to Charlie when he was around 10 months old. He was never the same after that incident.

[Bionic_Man]

joeshmoe wrote:

campn4walleye wrote:
We just completed 4 wonderful days at a county CG on a very nice fishing lake.

The moment we arrived, we noticed a family with a pit bull running loose. I asked them to put it on a leash as we have dogs too and our weim doesn't always like other dogs and is protective of our cavalier. (There is a leash rule) but it seems it is not enforced. The camp host lets his little pom run free.

Anyhow, we got set up and the pit bull's owner comes over and says he's sorry he doesn't have a leash or tie out line. In truth, the dog doesn't even have a collar! I'm annoyed, but was civil, and warned him to keep it out of our site.

Naturally, they let their 4 y/o come over with the dog. Immediately, our dog rushed the dog and there was a quick fight. The guy didn't even know it happened until he heard us yell.

What would you do? Our dog is so quiet and sweet, unless a dog comes into his area without being properly introduced. If they had met in passing, he would have been fine.

How in the world can an owner maintain responsibility for the dog without a collar and leash?

Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks for listening.

So...let me understand...the other dog comes over to your camp (albeit, off-leash and against the rules, fine) in a non-aggressive manner, your dog sees the other dog and goes into defense mode. But it's the other dogs' (owner) fault?

Let me help you understand. Yes, that is exactly the case. I may have felt the same way as you did, but with my current dog (a rescue), my opinion has changed.

Like the OP, my dog is very protective on his leash. At the dog park, off his leash, he is a different dog - friendly and playful. But if he is on his leash he can be protective and aggressive if another dog comes by. I have, and will continue to try to change this behavior, working with 3 different trainers, but if there is something in the dogs life that has caused this behavior, it is not as simple as just "properly socializing" them.

So, yes, if my dog is on a leash in my own campsite (or on a walk for that matter), and a stray dog rushes us and come within the scope of that leash, it is the owner of the stray dog that is responsible for what insues. My dog was under control. The stray was not, and caused the problems.

[BCSnob]

double post

[BCSnob]

joeshmoe wrote:
Essentially, you told the owner to leash his dog because you haven't fully socialized yours.

Our first Border Collie was very well socialized with other dogs, enjoyed meeting other dogs. That is until the day a loose dog at a park came running over to us with our leashed dog. The owner yelled "he's friendly"; that dog immediately jumped our dog (no warning, straight on top of our dog). Our dog had to crawl under a park bench to prevent the loose dog from continuing to attack; we were unable to stop the strange dog and his leash (even once dropped by us) put him at a disadvantage. After that event our dog distrusted every strange dog that ran towards him. After that event he was always on the defensive when meeting loose strange dogs and his defensive posture made meetings tense with every new dog.

I guess you would say we failed in the socialization of our dog because he distrusted strange dogs after he got attacked by a strange dog.

[Tvov]

Wow, joeshmoe, impressive how you turned that incident upside down. So now it's the fault of the owner's who keep their pets under control? Honestly, I never would have thought of that!