Internal Organs pushed towards spine

[ridingfamily4]

I have a 14 year old (F) boxer named Sammie.

We knew she has arthritis/spondylosis and has been on Tramadol and had been diagnosed with the thyroid issue a few months back and is now on Synthroid. She has also had seizures in the past and the vet did not want to put her on anti-seizure meds. saying it might take away her quality of life.

We took her in to the vet earlier this week, she wasn't eating/drinking well and had vomited. She had another seizure.

The vet manually checked her abdomen, did blood work and took xrays.

When she pushed her abdomen a certain way, Sammie winced in pain.

Blood work came back all normal.

Xrays showed her internal organs are pushed up towards her spine. Vet said that it was either a mass pushing them up there or it was "positional" meaning the way she was sitting for the xrays made it look that way.

Unless we were willing to spend another $450 (visit was already $550 - dr visit, x rays, blood work and new meds) and wait for the visiting ultrasound dr, there was not much more she could diagnose.

Her pain med was changed and she was put on the anti-seizure med.

She seems to feel better and is definitely eating/drinking better.

I know 14 y/o boxers are uncommon and I know that cancer is a huge risk with them.

Is the diagnosis most likely a mass? Is there such a thing as positional movement of the organs towards the spine? Isn't the pain significant?

I asked these questions of my vet, but not sure I rec'd a good answer - if there is one without doing the ultrasound.

[ridingfamily4]

thanks everyone. I was having a "moment" when I posted.

Both of my "boys" (they are 23 and 19) left home this year, oldest entered the Navy and the other has gone off to college in another state. Becoming empty nesters has been difficult for us. We were always involved in their activities. Now with the dog entering her twilight, it has been even more difficult for me.

Luckily, the boys will be home for Christmas - college boy comes home next week for a month and then the Navy boy will get a week starting the 19th.

I digress ...

Thank you for your uplifting and positive posts. Just needed some reassurances.

[Boxer_Lovers]

We share your concerns and pray for the best outcome.

[xteacher]

As I'm sure you already know, boxers are very prone to cancer, so to make it to 14 is AMAZING! Kudos to you for obviously giving her wonderful care over the years! I agree with your decision not to pursue exploratory surgery or invasive treatment. Give your dog lots of hugs and keep Sammie comfortable with meds as long as possible. We too, had a boxer (RIP Duke) who succumbed to cancer at age 7. He let us know when it was time, and we then helped him to the Bridge.

[KarenS144]

Fourteen is old for just about any dog but especially a boxer. Boxers are such wonderful companions and I'm sorry your girl is having problems. We had a boxer that had seizures and was on phenobarbital. I also had a syringe of valium to give him anally when he had a seizure. That was supposed to help calm him afterwards since he got so anxious and unsettled.

The pheno did make him even more wobbly than he already was for a few days (he had DM symptoms too) but he adjusted. I took him to Purdue to be evaluated and their conclusion was the same as my vets. He probably had a brain tumor. We opted not to continue with further tests or exploratory surgery.

Even with the pheno, Schuller had a seizure about every 4-5 days until I started him on melatonin which I did because he was restless at night. He was seizure free for almost 6 weeks when he was taking the melatonin. Some studies support the thought that melatonin suppresses the growth of tumors which may explain why Schu's seizures stopped for a while.

I also tried the holistic route with Chinese meds & acupuncture and he did seem better after the acupuncture sessions. He was 10.5 when we helped him to the Bridge.

Sending lots of good thoughts and vibes...

[Pawz4me]

One of my cats, who is now about twelve years old, was x-rayed about eight years ago. He'd had a couple of UTIs and the vet wanted to look for stones. My cat's internal organs were all pushed to one side. The vet did another x-ray to make sure it wasn't a positioning issue. Like your vet and Dr. Doug, he said it's almost always a tumor when they see organs pushed where they shouldn't be. He had all the vets in the practice look at the x-rays, and nobody could see anything suspicious. Like Dr. Doug, he said tumors don't always show up on x-rays. The cat is still with us and has been completely healthy (he didn't even have stones, and hasn't had any more UTIs). So his organs being pushed around are just a mystery.

I agree with you on quality of life over quantity for the old ones. I have a 14 year old Brittany, and we just try to enjoy each day with him.

[WyoTraveler]

ridingfamily4 wrote:

WyoTraveler wrote:
Common symptom of thyroid is dog loses tail hair ie rat tail. MY dog was on seizure meds for 8 years. That is BS about quality of life. Your dog could have a seizure when you are not there and become seriously injured. I would have walked out and found another vet. My dog gets the same medical care I get for myself. I don't go to bad DRs and neither does my dog. Sorry, JMHO.

She doesn't have a tail, so no hair loss. She has been on the Synthroid since being diagnosed.

We did change her vet, which is why she is now on the seizure med.

Thank you for your opinion.

My dog lost tail hair and I panicked so now know about thyroid. My dog was an abused dog and had grand mal seizures. Heart breaking. We had to put him down after 8 years of seizures even on meds. Hardest thing I ever did. Some vets just don't want responsibilty of prescribing drugs. They should get out of the vet business.

[Hiking_Hunter]

I would think a mass large enough to displace organs upward would be able to be felt and identified by a skilled veterinarian.
Give the "ultrasound doc" a shot at it when he comes around. He would probably have more experience identifying anatomy.

[ridingfamily4]

dturm wrote:

ridingfamily4 wrote:

When she pushed her abdomen a certain way, Sammie winced in pain.

Is the diagnosis most likely a mass? Is there such a thing as positional movement of the organs towards the spine? Isn't the pain significant?

With the pain on palpation, 14 year old Boxer and symptoms an abdominal mass would be #1 on my list. Most abdominal masses are spleen or liver (but not all of them).

Position can have some effect, but not usually towards spine unless positioning was really skewed.

Hard to give any good advice, but the follow up suggestions by the vet are not out of line. Difficult decisions for sure.

Doug, DVM

Thanks Dr Doug.

She did mention spleen or liver mass. But again, without the proper diagnostic tool, unable to make a diagnosis.

It is not about the money, even if she has the mass, I'm not sure what we would do about it.

Her quality of life is what is most important to me. I question putting a dog that old through cancer treatments, thinking if the cancer didn't kill her, the treatment might.

[ridingfamily4]

WyoTraveler wrote:
Common symptom of thyroid is dog loses tail hair ie rat tail. MY dog was on seizure meds for 8 years. That is BS about quality of life. Your dog could have a seizure when you are not there and become seriously injured. I would have walked out and found another vet. My dog gets the same medical care I get for myself. I don't go to bad DRs and neither does my dog. Sorry, JMHO.

She doesn't have a tail, so no hair loss. She has been on the Synthroid since being diagnosed.

We did change her vet, which is why she is now on the seizure med.

Thank you for your opinion.

[dturm]

crickeydog wrote:
I guess my first question would have been why doesn't the mass show up on xrays or an MRI?

Happy camping!!! See y'all down the road!!!

It would show on an MRI, but only specialty hospitals have access.

On X-Rays soft tissue tumors often have the same density as all the other soft tissue in the abdomen. Unless there is a gas or fat border to the tumor, it just blends into all the other stuff in the abdomen.

We often suspect a tumor when abdominal contents are not where they are supposed to be.

[WyoTraveler]

Common symptom of thyroid is dog loses tail hair ie rat tail. MY dog was on seizure meds for 8 years. That is BS about quality of life. Your dog could have a seizure when you are not there and become seriously injured. I would have walked out and found another vet. My dog gets the same medical care I get for myself. I don't go to bad DRs and neither does my dog. Sorry, JMHO.

[dturm]

ridingfamily4 wrote:

When she pushed her abdomen a certain way, Sammie winced in pain.

Is the diagnosis most likely a mass? Is there such a thing as positional movement of the organs towards the spine? Isn't the pain significant?

With the pain on palpation, 14 year old Boxer and symptoms an abdominal mass would be #1 on my list. Most abdominal masses are spleen or liver (but not all of them).

Position can have some effect, but not usually towards spine unless positioning was really skewed.

Hard to give any good advice, but the follow up suggestions by the vet are not out of line. Difficult decisions for sure.

Doug, DVM

[magnusfide]

Double ditto. I wondered that as well.

[crickeydog]

I guess my first question would have been why doesn't the mass show up on xrays or an MRI?

Happy camping!!! See y'all down the road!!!