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ridingfamily4's avatar
ridingfamily4
Explorer
Dec 04, 2014

Internal Organs pushed towards spine

I have a 14 year old (F) boxer named Sammie.

We knew she has arthritis/spondylosis and has been on Tramadol and had been diagnosed with the thyroid issue a few months back and is now on Synthroid. She has also had seizures in the past and the vet did not want to put her on anti-seizure meds. saying it might take away her quality of life.

We took her in to the vet earlier this week, she wasn't eating/drinking well and had vomited. She had another seizure.

The vet manually checked her abdomen, did blood work and took xrays.

When she pushed her abdomen a certain way, Sammie winced in pain.

Blood work came back all normal.

Xrays showed her internal organs are pushed up towards her spine. Vet said that it was either a mass pushing them up there or it was "positional" meaning the way she was sitting for the xrays made it look that way.

Unless we were willing to spend another $450 (visit was already $550 - dr visit, x rays, blood work and new meds) and wait for the visiting ultrasound dr, there was not much more she could diagnose.

Her pain med was changed and she was put on the anti-seizure med.

She seems to feel better and is definitely eating/drinking better.

I know 14 y/o boxers are uncommon and I know that cancer is a huge risk with them.

Is the diagnosis most likely a mass? Is there such a thing as positional movement of the organs towards the spine? Isn't the pain significant?

I asked these questions of my vet, but not sure I rec'd a good answer - if there is one without doing the ultrasound.
  • crickeydog's avatar
    crickeydog
    Explorer
    Dec 04, 2014
    I guess my first question would have been why doesn't the mass show up on xrays or an MRI?

    Happy camping!!! See y'all down the road!!!
  • dturm's avatar
    dturm
    Moderator
    Dec 04, 2014
    ridingfamily4 wrote:

    When she pushed her abdomen a certain way, Sammie winced in pain.

    Is the diagnosis most likely a mass? Is there such a thing as positional movement of the organs towards the spine? Isn't the pain significant?


    With the pain on palpation, 14 year old Boxer and symptoms an abdominal mass would be #1 on my list. Most abdominal masses are spleen or liver (but not all of them).

    Position can have some effect, but not usually towards spine unless positioning was really skewed.

    Hard to give any good advice, but the follow up suggestions by the vet are not out of line. Difficult decisions for sure.

    Doug, DVM
  • WyoTraveler's avatar
    WyoTraveler
    Explorer
    Dec 04, 2014
    Common symptom of thyroid is dog loses tail hair ie rat tail. MY dog was on seizure meds for 8 years. That is BS about quality of life. Your dog could have a seizure when you are not there and become seriously injured. I would have walked out and found another vet. My dog gets the same medical care I get for myself. I don't go to bad DRs and neither does my dog. Sorry, JMHO.
  • dturm's avatar
    dturm
    Moderator
    Dec 04, 2014
    crickeydog wrote:
    I guess my first question would have been why doesn't the mass show up on xrays or an MRI?

    Happy camping!!! See y'all down the road!!!


    It would show on an MRI, but only specialty hospitals have access.

    On X-Rays soft tissue tumors often have the same density as all the other soft tissue in the abdomen. Unless there is a gas or fat border to the tumor, it just blends into all the other stuff in the abdomen.

    We often suspect a tumor when abdominal contents are not where they are supposed to be.
  • ridingfamily4's avatar
    ridingfamily4
    Explorer
    Dec 04, 2014
    WyoTraveler wrote:
    Common symptom of thyroid is dog loses tail hair ie rat tail. MY dog was on seizure meds for 8 years. That is BS about quality of life. Your dog could have a seizure when you are not there and become seriously injured. I would have walked out and found another vet. My dog gets the same medical care I get for myself. I don't go to bad DRs and neither does my dog. Sorry, JMHO.


    She doesn't have a tail, so no hair loss. She has been on the Synthroid since being diagnosed.

    We did change her vet, which is why she is now on the seizure med.

    Thank you for your opinion.
  • ridingfamily4's avatar
    ridingfamily4
    Explorer
    Dec 04, 2014
    dturm wrote:
    ridingfamily4 wrote:

    When she pushed her abdomen a certain way, Sammie winced in pain.

    Is the diagnosis most likely a mass? Is there such a thing as positional movement of the organs towards the spine? Isn't the pain significant?


    With the pain on palpation, 14 year old Boxer and symptoms an abdominal mass would be #1 on my list. Most abdominal masses are spleen or liver (but not all of them).

    Position can have some effect, but not usually towards spine unless positioning was really skewed.

    Hard to give any good advice, but the follow up suggestions by the vet are not out of line. Difficult decisions for sure.

    Doug, DVM


    Thanks Dr Doug.

    She did mention spleen or liver mass. But again, without the proper diagnostic tool, unable to make a diagnosis.

    It is not about the money, even if she has the mass, I'm not sure what we would do about it.

    Her quality of life is what is most important to me. I question putting a dog that old through cancer treatments, thinking if the cancer didn't kill her, the treatment might.
  • Hiking_Hunter's avatar
    Hiking_Hunter
    Explorer
    Dec 04, 2014
    I would think a mass large enough to displace organs upward would be able to be felt and identified by a skilled veterinarian.
    Give the "ultrasound doc" a shot at it when he comes around. He would probably have more experience identifying anatomy.
  • WyoTraveler's avatar
    WyoTraveler
    Explorer
    Dec 04, 2014
    ridingfamily4 wrote:
    WyoTraveler wrote:
    Common symptom of thyroid is dog loses tail hair ie rat tail. MY dog was on seizure meds for 8 years. That is BS about quality of life. Your dog could have a seizure when you are not there and become seriously injured. I would have walked out and found another vet. My dog gets the same medical care I get for myself. I don't go to bad DRs and neither does my dog. Sorry, JMHO.


    She doesn't have a tail, so no hair loss. She has been on the Synthroid since being diagnosed.

    We did change her vet, which is why she is now on the seizure med.

    Thank you for your opinion.


    My dog lost tail hair and I panicked so now know about thyroid. My dog was an abused dog and had grand mal seizures. Heart breaking. We had to put him down after 8 years of seizures even on meds. Hardest thing I ever did. Some vets just don't want responsibilty of prescribing drugs. They should get out of the vet business.
  • Pawz4me's avatar
    Pawz4me
    Explorer
    Dec 04, 2014
    One of my cats, who is now about twelve years old, was x-rayed about eight years ago. He'd had a couple of UTIs and the vet wanted to look for stones. My cat's internal organs were all pushed to one side. The vet did another x-ray to make sure it wasn't a positioning issue. Like your vet and Dr. Doug, he said it's almost always a tumor when they see organs pushed where they shouldn't be. He had all the vets in the practice look at the x-rays, and nobody could see anything suspicious. Like Dr. Doug, he said tumors don't always show up on x-rays. The cat is still with us and has been completely healthy (he didn't even have stones, and hasn't had any more UTIs). So his organs being pushed around are just a mystery.

    I agree with you on quality of life over quantity for the old ones. I have a 14 year old Brittany, and we just try to enjoy each day with him.

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