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State of Vet Care in the US

4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Explorer II
After living overseas for so long returning to the US always has it's surprises. But one of the worst was the state of Veterinary Care in the US.

Now I have had dogs all of my life, NO ONE loves their dog more than I do. My dogs usually live well into old age, in fact my English Bulldog Mr. Buster lived for 13 years an exceptionally long time for that breed.

I now have two dogs. Nigel my older dog at 12 years is a Border Collie/Aust Shepard mix. Jake my younger one is 6 years and is just the Original dog.

What follows is just one encounter of many similar ones in the last two years.

So when I go to the vet and they ask me what breed is Jake, who was given to me in SE Asia, it's always a contentious issue. Vets Dont know what to call him. Most dont even know dogs like him exist.

Jake and dogs exactly like him are found all over the world, mostly in the Developing countries of S. America, Asia, the Middle East and Africa and most famously in India.

When I lived in Egypt you could go to the Egyptian Museum in Cairo and right in the front lobby was a glass case with the Mummy of a dog with most of it's bandages removed. This particular dog was 4000 years old. He looks exactly in all respects like Jake. And as you leave the museum the outside steps are littered with dogs exactly like the one inside. Not a thing changed in 4000 years.

Dog remains have been excavated in other places around the world and from that they can tell ist's just like that Egyptian dog and my dog Jake. So I just tell the vet he's the Original Dog.

They are not amused. Then I relate the story above. They often look at me as if I were mad.

The Vet who recently gave our pooches their shots and papers for Mexico insisted that he was some sort of AKC breed before he could go in the computer or be treated! I said OK well call him an Indian Pariah Dog...cant do that its not an AKC breed. Well actually it is. Look it up on the internet. I pulled out my phone said "OK GOOGLE" and showed her that yes indeed this was an akc designation. NOPE it's not in our computer...so they put him down as a "Sheppard Mix".

Later in the exam room she asked me where we got Jake and I told her Cambodia. "Are you from Cambodia" she asked? Well I was taken aback. I am a white male 62 years old. I laughed and said no I could not be from Cambodia. It was clear to me she knew nothing of Cambodia, SE Asia or probably any where else in the world. She became a bit indignant and said well there are white people that come from South Africa!

I avoided explaining to her that they were conquerors and colonialists and their descendants are not the original inhabitants. But I did, as nicely as possible, tell her that Only Khmers (the people of Cambodia are from Cambodia. (They have been invaded time and again by the Thais and the Vietnamese and mixed with them but I didnt go into this.

So once outside I started thinking...What kind of education are we giving our vets that they know nothing of the history of the Dog, or that dogs dont all fit into the AKC breed designations. And how can you get out of any college, even VET school or High School for that matter, without knowing basic world geography, the history of the Vietnam conflict, the Khmer Rouge etc etc?

She noticed a sore on my dog Nigels undercarriage and mentioned it. I told her he scratched himself getting up his ranp, That we were watching it. He has a couple of those Cysts that older dogs get and the sore was on one of those...It was healing nicely. No fewer than 3 vets had told me what it was and I am confident it is not Cancer.

She thought it should be tested, I told her other vets had diagnosed it as a benign cyst, not unusual in dogs his age. Even the US Navy vets that travel with the hospital ship Hope (and others)had the same diagnosis.

I wonder did it ever occur to her that even if Nigel did have cancer it would be crazy and in fact cruel to put him through the pain and agony of the treatment at 12 years old? I had stage 4 head and neck cancer more than 10 years ago and had Chemo and radiation and 9 hour surgeries..;so there was nothing I can be told about having cancer.

She was indignant. She made it clear that she thought I was a terrible owner. I wonder does it ever occur to the Vets that it might have been more humane to just keep the dog comfortable and happy for as long as possible and not subject it to unnecessary pain and sickness at it's advanced age?

Nigel is healthy and happy and yes two days after leaving the Vet his sore was completely healed.

This attitude of throwing money, drugs and more and more tests at our pets have resulted in a Vet visit that often times costs more than taking a human to the doctor, a completely ridiculous upside down state of affairs.

Jake

34 REPLIES 34

4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Explorer II
An American Doctor by the name of Siddartha Mukherjee wrote a book called THE EMPEROR OF ALL MALADIES, a biography of Cancer, for which he won a Pulitzer Prize.

His new book THE LAWS OF MEDICINE is a must read for any doctor, VET patient or just anyone interested in the state of health care.

The thrust of the book is that Doctors need to Talk LESS and LISTEN more. They need to trust in their intuition. They need to INQUIRE and understand a patients home, work and other environments before rushing off to get tests and more tests. Tests are important for sure. But as he points out many times they are useless without knowing what is really going on in a persons life.

In an interview he did with NPR he sited a study that shows that the average patient gets out only seven words before being interrupted by the doctor.

Read this book and tell me VETS could not benefit from the same advice. They are unfortunately following too closely in the footsteps of Physicians.

4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Explorer II
mockturtle wrote:
RV Pet Stop is probably the most dangerous forum here. Post only at your own risk. :W


LOL... yes that is true. It's almost as bad as the Mexico forum. Both have a partisan following of "experts" that you disagree with at your own peril.

4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Explorer II
punomatic wrote:
"So once outside I started thinking...What kind of education are we giving our vets that they know nothing of the history of the Dog, or that dogs dont all fit into the AKC breed designations. And how can you get out of any college, even VET school or High School for that matter, without knowing basic world geography, the history of the Vietnam conflict, the Khmer Rouge etc etc?"

This is what comes of an "educational" system that focuses on teaching job skills rather than educating. One of my greatest disappointments in life was when I realized that the dental school I attended was not an academic institution but a trade school.


x2 Very well put. But in reality although one should, in my view get a well rounded education before a specialty, all one really has to do to educate themselves is to READ. But you need first and foremost... CURIOSITY and a drive to understand things That you don't understand. You also need to know what you dont know. If you get my meaning.

This is what I find lacking in many people I meet today, a near total lack of curiosity of the world around them and its inhabitants and issues.

This is precisely how the Vet in Tucson struck me. Provincial, ill-educated and no Curiosity whatsoever.

mockturtle
Explorer II
Explorer II
I agree that veterinary medicine is superior to human medicine. And there's something very wrong with that picture, IMHO.
2015 Tiger Bengal TX 4X4
Chevy 3500HD, 6L V8

Deb_and_Ed_M
Explorer II
Explorer II
I don't know - right at the moment, I wish someone could steal my 34 yr old daughter out of the hospital, and take her to my regular Vet. Or even the Vet down here in FL. In both places, my pets have received the kindest care, with their best interests at heart. The day after I took Jimmy with his flea-bite allergy to a new vet (who seemed to be able to deal with a mix that wasn't in their system) - I got a call from one of the vet techs, to make sure that Jimmy was feeling better!

Meanwhile, my daughter went to the emergency clinic Wednesday night with a killer headache, stiff neck, high fever - ALL the symptoms of meningitis - and FINALLY, this morning, they did a spinal tap to see if that's what she has??? After 36 hours in the hospital, running all sorts of other tests..... initial test reports show she doesn't have Bacterial Meningitis (which needs to be treated IMMEDIATELY) - still waiting to see if it's the other forms.

I think the state of Veterinary medicine and care is outstanding.
Ed, Deb, and 2 dogs
Looking for a small Class C!

BCSnob
Explorer
Explorer
Yea, you might get sucked into a dog food debate.:E
Mark & Renee
Working Border Collies: Nell (retired), Tally (retired), Grant (semi retired), Lee, Fern & Hattie
Duke & Penny (Anatolians) home guarding the flock
2001 Chevy Express 2500 Cargo (rolling kennel)
2007 Nash 22M

mockturtle
Explorer II
Explorer II
RV Pet Stop is probably the most dangerous forum here. Post only at your own risk. :W
2015 Tiger Bengal TX 4X4
Chevy 3500HD, 6L V8

punomatic
Explorer
Explorer
"So once outside I started thinking...What kind of education are we giving our vets that they know nothing of the history of the Dog, or that dogs dont all fit into the AKC breed designations. And how can you get out of any college, even VET school or High School for that matter, without knowing basic world geography, the history of the Vietnam conflict, the Khmer Rouge etc etc?"

This is what comes of an "educational" system that focuses on teaching job skills rather than educating. One of my greatest disappointments in life was when I realized that the dental school I attended was not an academic institution but a trade school.
DW and Me
2016 Riverside White Water Retro 195
2014 Nissan Titan SL Crew Cab
Formerly, I used to work for the department of redundancy department.


Life in Black and Blue

mike-uswest
Explorer
Explorer
And this differs from human medicine how?

Mike
2019 Ram 2500 TCD, 4X4,
Arctic Fox 25Y 30'

4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Explorer II
Well if this had been a one-off experience I would never have bothered writing about it. However I had a similar experience with a Vet in Minot ND with my big dog Nigel. And of course their insistence that my little guy Jake (in the photo) be classified as some breed accepted by the AKC.

That Vet did a blood screen on Nigel because he had all the symptoms of diabetes. Everything came back normal.

The Minot Vet was much more savvy about things than the one in Tucson however I still found myself leaving having spent a great deal of money with no answers or even a good suggestion and being urged to have more and more tests done. Then I solved the issue myself by watching the dog and changing how..not what, he was fed.

The vets one suggestion, to change the dogs to a very expensive food with low carbohydrates (which she sold) turned out completely badly.

I found the same dog food at a local feed store bought it (still very expensive) and fed it to my dogs as instructed. My two playful, happy, active pooches became like Zombies overnight. They were completely lethargic. They would not play or run or do any of the stuff they did before. It was like someone turned a switch off. After 3 days of this I switched them back to their old food. And almost immediately they got back to their old selves.

So while there are good vets out there, I do think that the way Veterinary medicine is being practiced today, with a huge reliance on expensive tests and more and more expensive surgical procedures with vets acting more and more like MD's for humans not only in the way their practices are set up and run but also in the way they view their role, things are out of whack on a serious level.

America is one of the FEW countries of the world where a "Prescription" by a vet is actually needed to buy medicines for a dog or cat. The upshot is, the care of our pets is slowly being taken from us and being put into the hands of an ever increasingly expensive and complicated medical establishment.

4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Explorer II
mike-uswest wrote:
Okay, now we are getting into my college is bigger than your college, and my subjects make me better than you are. I personally wouldn't want to be associated with politicians with the mess they are making of our country.

Mike


Not really mike, the point was the special sort of arrogance it takes to make a statement like the one made in the post I answered. Its about saying "Well us Science people are just so much smarter than the rest of you"

My sole goal was to deflate that, It came out wrong I am afraid. I have edited it.

Oaklevel
Explorer
Explorer
Vets are people too and vary greatly......... Our vet deals with farm animals as well as small indoor pets. When Alley a Boxer developed cancer he told us our options from nothing to chemo and the life expediency and quality of life of each. No push in any direction. No push for prolonging a suffering life. Just our options.

BCSnob
Explorer
Explorer
4X4Dodger wrote:

Your arrogance about the Sciences and how much smarter you may be than those that majored in History or Law speaks volumes about your education.
What you are seeing is not the difference in what ones major was in college but if the college attended was a liberal arts school or not. My major was chemistry and minor in math but I was still required to take many classes in a wide range in other fields including religion, philosophy, art, history, etc.; that was the core corriculum at the liberal arts college I attended. The science education was still top notch, entered grad school better prepared than most of my colleagues who attended state universities.
Mark & Renee
Working Border Collies: Nell (retired), Tally (retired), Grant (semi retired), Lee, Fern & Hattie
Duke & Penny (Anatolians) home guarding the flock
2001 Chevy Express 2500 Cargo (rolling kennel)
2007 Nash 22M

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
Dang 4X4Dodger..........why did YOU even bother with a VET ?
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31