Vetting Breeders

[Crowe]

We have started the search for a new puppy and plan on vetting any breeder thoroughly. Problem I am having is no matter how I search I cannot seem to find any info. Meeting them and visiting their facility is the highest priority but that is difficult right now. I've tried using the AKC website but don't have much faith as it seems as long as you send them the money they will list a breeder as credible. If their website/Facebook page doesn't show the minimum info like health certs, references available, etc. I move on. I did all this with our other Springer breeder and despite all looking great we got two dogs with issues. And I don't consider myself stupid or naive. Thoughts on the easiest way to check them out? Please, no comments about adopting rescues instead. Thanks.

[Crowe]

BCSnob wrote:

Crowe wrote:
We also know we wouldn't use the dog for its intended purposes and that seems somewhat unfair.

This sentiment never has made sense to me when one considers there are breeds that were developed and intended for dog fighting or animal baiting.

Leap of faith Mark. I was referring to me and me only. We are talking about springers and springers only.

[BCSnob]

Crowe wrote:
We also know we wouldn't use the dog for its intended purposes and that seems somewhat unfair.

This sentiment never has made sense to me when one considers there are breeds that were developed and intended for dog fighting or animal baiting.

[dturm]

winnietrey wrote:
I wonder if you could call the breeder's vet. They probably would not say anything to negative, but anything short of a ringing endorsement, you might be able to read between the lines?...

HIPAA/ privacy rules apply to DVMs as well. I doubt you'd get any information without permission from the breeder.

[Crowe]

BCSnob wrote:
Just as there are personality trait that run in some bench/pet bred lines, personality traits and temperaments can run in some working bred lines. Not all works bred lines are “alpha”, high strung, not laid back enough to be a pet, etc. more often than not, the dogs with the extreme characteristics are used to paint all dogs in the group. This can be especially true if there are lines that are popular regionally; the characteristics of that line seem to define the characteristics of the breed until you go to another region with different lines.

Agree but my local experience with springers pushes me away from field dogs. We also know we wouldn't use the dog for its intended purposes and that seems somewhat unfair. A dog bread more for temperament is better suited for us. Field dogs are also on the smaller side on average-we want big and doofy.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

My last three dogs came from 2 breeders who had similar values: Health, of course, (conformation to a certain degree) but more importantly temperment, and heavily-socialized from the moment they are born. Augie is a purebred Aussie - but very un-Aussielike in that the entire world is his best friend (they are usually a bit aloof with strangers). His breeder will often turn down applications where she feels her dogs will not be a good fit. In MY case, my dogs go to work with me, so MUST be friendly.

[BCSnob]

Just as there are personality trait that run in some bench/pet bred lines, personality traits and temperaments can run in some working bred lines. Not all works bred lines are “alpha”, high strung, not laid back enough to be a pet, etc. more often than not, the dogs with the extreme characteristics are used to paint all dogs in the group. This can be especially true if there are lines that are popular regionally; the characteristics of that line seem to define the characteristics of the breed until you go to another region with different lines.

[winnietrey]

I wonder if you could call the breeder's vet. They probably would not say anything to negative, but anything short of a ringing endorsement, you might be able to read between the lines?

I am a lab guy ( for the last 40 years) I also would not want a lab breed for hunting way to alpha, way to hyper. I know nothing about Springers in that regard though

You might try craigslist, might find someone who just wanted to breed one litter of pups for friends and family and has an extra or two. Just did that with our current lab, he is great. Just some random thoughts

As an after though I am sure you are probably aware, with the Covid, dogs are in high demand right now. Selection has gone down and price has gone up. At least that was our experience in the last month

[Crowe]

BCSnob wrote:
If I were looking for a springer I would be looking for breeders who breed for hunting (even if I were not going to hunt with the dog). Someone who is going to invest the time to train a gun dog will want to be as sure as possible they get a pup that will have a long healthy life (bred for work and health). To find one of these breeders I would start with the parent breed club or a hunting/field trial association.

Here is a good question for breeders:
“How many pups are you keeping from this litter?”

If the answer is none you have a better sense of why they produce this litter.

We don't want a field springer for various reasons. The same qualities you present for hunting dogs could be said for someone who is going to train for agility or other purposes. IMHO a good breeder is more concerned with home life than purpose unless they are breeding for a specific purpose only. We are very familiar with both types of breeding and those that do both. Also, having a SIL who breeds labs has helped me. I don't consider how many pups are kept as a criteria-there are many reasons why even a reputable breeder will not keep pups at any given time.

[Crowe]

Son of Norway wrote:
We chose a breeder based on her website, Facebook page and a phone conversation. She didn't have a company or a large breeding operation. Her priorities were clearly her family and her dogs. The puppies were born and kept in her home. They were well socialized by her family. She had a ranch up in the mountains. Also the price, She could have gotten a lot higher price than she was asking, so she obviously wasn't in it just for the money. The dogs were from a line of active hunting dogs, not just kept for breeding. We just had a good feeling about her, and we love our golden beyond words. Maybe the story of our experience will help you.

That's where we are at right now. Her pricing is reasonable but not cheap, dogs at home, etc. The parents are absolutely gorgeous and champion dogs-she could ask more than she is and get it but her main concern is the dog being placed in a good home.

[Crowe]

Lwiddis wrote:
Is the swipe at AKC backed up by anything except “it seems?”

Yup. Experience from reputable breeders I already know.

[BCSnob]

If I were looking for a springer I would be looking for breeders who breed for hunting (even if I were not going to hunt with the dog). Someone who is going to invest the time to train a gun dog will want to be as sure as possible they get a pup that will have a long healthy life (bred for work and health). To find one of these breeders I would start with the parent breed club or a hunting/field trial association.

Here is a good question for breeders:
“How many pups are you keeping from this litter?”

If the answer is none you have a better sense of why they produce this litter.

[Son_of_Norway]

We chose a breeder based on her website, Facebook page and a phone conversation. She didn't have a company or a large breeding operation. Her priorities were clearly her family and her dogs. The puppies were born and kept in her home. They were well socialized by her family. She had a ranch up in the mountains. Also the price, She could have gotten a lot higher price than she was asking, so she obviously wasn't in it just for the money. The dogs were from a line of active hunting dogs, not just kept for breeding. We just had a good feeling about her, and we love our golden beyond words. Maybe the story of our experience will help you.

[Ed_Gee]

I would suggest starting with the National Breed Club of whatever breed you are looking at rather than the AKC.

[Lwiddis]

Is the swipe at AKC backed up by anything except “it seems?”