14 volt tv and the inverter squealing.

[klutchdust]

My Cambria has a 14 volt/35W TV in the bedroom.(typical power 18W) It is powered by a Samsung ac/dc adapter ( 35w) and that is plugged into a Wagan Elite 400W pro dc to ac pure sine inverter.

Now, when it was first installed the tv operated off of the house batteries. Now when it is powered on from the house batteries there is a loud squeal. The inverter does say that IF the input power drops the inverter may make a beeping sound then it will power off.

The house batteries are fully charged when this happens. The 12 volt input power to the inverter is controlled by a wall switch factory installed.


What went wrong.

[landyacht318]

I'd not long term keep a flooded starting battery attached to an RV converter set to keep house AGMs at a happy float voltage.

Flooded batteries are more of a 13.2v float and AGMS 13.6v ish.

I have verified that my 13.6v recommended float AGM will discharge slightly at 13.5v float when there are still loads on the system, or temperatures sub 60f.

BOats use amn 'echo' charger to keep starting battery happy when attached to shore power.

Lots of ways to skin that particular cat.

[BFL13]

OP seems like someone who would appreciate a Trimetric.

I do have an adapter for paralleling the engine battery with the house battery bank, but I prefer to use a separate maintenance charger on the engine battery. I don't like having the engine batt in parallel with my house AGMs, but cannot prove it is a bad thing--I just don't like it. I made the adapter for when on solar off grid a long time so the solar would also do the engine batt.

I found it way easier to leave the 7300 in place and use a deck-mount converter as a portable charger with clamp-on wiring (cut off end of fat jumper cables). No wiring to do, and you get the charger close to the batteries. The 7300 was still good for when on shore power.

[landyacht318]

I like my OTC4619 hydrometer as it has the thermometer on the lower portion which says how much to add or subtract for electrolye temperature. Just give it some time to react to electrolyte temperature which is usually hotter on the middle cells of the battery. The EZ red style of plastic hydrometers I found to be wildly imprecise and have unrepeatable results, bubbles or no bubbles sticking to the needle/float.

A Digital voltmeter is many fold better than the idiot lights provided, and while some might say that tenths of a volt are plenty to gauge battery state of charge, I bought a Drok voltmeter with 3 decimal places, and it is very interesting to see voltage drop when adding the load of a 0.08 amp LED bulb, and feel a person wanting to learn solely how much battery they have left, can get away with just this. Flip
various loads on and off, watch voltmeter respond.

That said while a digital voltmeter is many fold better, knowing voltage alone is not nearly as enlightening as knowing how much amperage is flowing at that voltage, whether in discharge or recharge.
One might see 12.02v and freak out, but if they see 12.02v under a 30 amp load, well that voltage held is respectable for that load, depending of course on the total battery capacity. 12.02v under a 0.7 amp load, and one is likely well below 50% and should think about recharging fairly soon, if possible, or at least minimize loads on the battery until recharging can be started.

Likewise on charging, one might see 14.7v and say Oh my batteries are fully charged, but the batteries might be accepting 45 amps at 14.7v, and thus be NOwhere near fully charged, or they might be only accepting 1.2 amps at 14.7v, indicating they are indeed fully charged or nearly so.

So as important as the voltmeter, is the ammeter in my opinion.

No an Amp hour counting battery monitor, is even more enlightening, but these can also be misleading if they are not zeroed occassionally when the batteries are known full. I take my % remaining screen with 100 grains of salt and look more at teh Ah from full as 90% accurate, 80% of the time. What i really determine full charge at is amps accepted at absorption voltage. With the help of the Ah counting battery monitor, I can also determine if my AGm is seemingly getting lazy, which it seems to do with light overnight discharges and low and slow solar only recharges. A mucch deeper discharge followed by a high amp recharge until amps taper to 0.5% of capacity is then required to restore expected performance. While I cannot say all lead acid batteries are similar, I do think the occassional deeper discharge and a higher amp recharge will smack them to attention and better voltage retention. That's an Opinion though, I've not really deep cycled a flooded battery and monitored it closely since I got the adjustable voltage charging tools, and experience i now have with my AGM.

As far as keepng the chassis battery up, I would want all the parasitic loads which are on the chassis battery removed, but for the engine computer. but rewiring those loads to house batteries can be a daunting task, and much simpler is to do as you have done which is to just hook a charging source to the chassis battery, since you can plug in. Instead of plugging in the maintenance 'smart' charger, with a new converter with more trustworthy voltage stages, you could simply hook up a parallellig cable to keep chassis battery at same voltage as house batteries when plugged in. BFL13 says he has done this with a dual ended cord with ciggy plugs.

Somw might recommedn solar for the chassis battery in this situation, but if it can be drained to dead in 10 days by parasitic loads, well then it will still be cycled overnight to some degree, and chassis starter batteries do not like being cycled, so best to prevent it, especially since you can plug in and prevent ANY discharge from occurring overnight.

I hate Ciggy plug connectors with the white hot passion of a thousand suns, but still employ them, in non critical tasks, and they never are asked to pass more than 20 watts. Ubiquitous and convenient do not mean they are a good product though. Horrid design really.

As far as specific products/brands, I will no longer recommend anything I have no personal experience with. I think the proclivities of humans to assign quality or lack there of, based solely on the opinions of others' that they have read on the internet, is one reason so many products never live up to their marketing claims, and why marketing departments have been expanded into dishonest liar departments, while the actual engineering of the product has been kneecapped, for maximum profit, quality function and longevity be damned.

Misleading marketing should be punished, in my opinion, and products destinned for a quick trip to the landfill is a huge issue, or will be for the next generations.

[klutchdust]

landyacht318 wrote:
If it is a plastic style hydrometer, make sure no bubbles are sticking to the float when taking readings.

The fact that dried out batteries are getting most cells back up into the high green is a testament to trojan quality, in my opinion, if the hydrometer readings are accurate.

Oh yeah, learned that a long time ago. Glass hydrometer, I may need to look into that as I wanted to keep one in the coach.

When I found the batteries to be low on water, I also took note that they were not bone dry, there still was some water in there.

Maintenance of my vehicles and keeping records is something I am strict on, how I missed checking those house batteries baffles me. I know the last time any of my 6 had their wipers changed....

I ordered and am going to replace the converter. Last travel season i noticed inconsistencies in the batteries being charged, I want to install a volt meter somewhere and quit using the wall mounted battery charge indicator that is part of the panel with the water levels etc.
Any recommendations appreciated.

Also, what would you recommend to keep the chassis battery up, the parasitic drain will kill it in a week and a half. I presently plug a small maintenance smart charger (their words, not mine) into the120 wall socket then feed it into a service port in the dash board and that works well.
Thanks for your help, enjoyed reading your lengthy post .

[landyacht318]

If it is a plastic style hydrometer, make sure no bubbles are sticking to the float when taking readings.

The fact that dried out batteries are getting most cells back up into the high green is a testament to trojan quality, in my opinion, if the hydrometer readings are accurate.

[BFL13]

With those batteries being not so bad (they do need equalizing at 16.2v to tidy them up) you can repeat the OP inverter experience with no shore power (and so no converter) and see what happens.

Then do it on shore power but with the battery bank disconnected. that will test the converter.

There is no reason given to suspect the converter at this point IMO.

The OP suggests it is a wiring/connections issue with where the inverter is connected to its 12v input, and not the input source itself.

[klutchdust]

So today after being off a charger for 24 hours the first battery reads 1275/1265/1250 on the hydrometer, all within the “ good “ range according to the instrument. The second battery read 1275 /1265/1275
Load test showed both batteries in the “ ok” range.
With this information I feel comfortable with the batteries and am pointing the finger at the converter. It has shown inconsistent charges in the past .

[BFL13]

I think this is what LY was talking about. It is manually operated for the adjustable voltage mode, using a small screwdriver and a flashlight to see what you are doing. A voltmeter at the terminals to see what the voltage is doing as you turn the pot. Available in various amp sizes. This is the 60 amper, suitable for most RV work.

https://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/powermax-pm3-60lk-12-volts-60-amp-power-converter-batt...

Para 9 and 10 here explain how to operate it

https://powermaxconverters.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/PM3-12V-LK-Manual-2018.pdf

[Almot]

While you are at it, get a battery monitor too. At the very least, $30 voltmeter with AH-counter from Amazon, that can be reset to zero.

[landyacht318]

Are you using a hydrometer to check specific gravity of the electrolyte?

If you are loading the batteries, what was the startng voltage, and the voltage under load, and how much load?
What voltage do they indtsntly return to once the load is removed? and how much does their voltage rise in 1 hour, 6 hours and 24 hours after the load was removed?

The results of all these tests would be much more revealing as to the condition of your batteries, as what you state is occuring pretty much leaves us totally in the dark and guessing as to the possible condition of your batteries.

Regarding the new converter. 3 or 4 stage is not really relevant as to quailty, but the voltage the charging source seeks and the amount of amperage available to seek and hold that voltage is.

Trojan Specs a 14.82 absorption voltage. this does NOT mean that 14.4v will not be able to fully charge the battery, it does mean that trojan thinks the batteries will stand less chance of premature sulfating if the charging source will goto 14.82v and hold it there for however long the charging source decides to do so.

Many of us have gotten utterly disgusted with 'automatic' charging sources, those of us who actually deep cycle batteries and use a hydrometer when the automatic charging source has decided that 14.4v has been held for long enough, only to find that many more hours held at absorption voltage are required to actually top charge the battery and that days held at 13.6v or less afterwards do nothing to increase the specific gravity.

Prematurely dropping voltage on regularly deeply cycled batteries is known to prematurely sulfate them, reducing their longevity. It is very hard to stuff in that last few % and rarely will 'automatic' 3 or 4 stage chargers be able to do a true 100% recharge.

I use a meanwell powersupply capable of any voltage i choose between 13.12 and 19.23 to hold absorption voltage as long as is reuired to reah an actual confirmed sull charge, BFL13 uses an adjustable voltage Powermax converter and knows all their products and methods for achieving a true full charge.

Auomatic is certainly reassuring, but while 95% charged will likely be good enough for a few days of deep cycling, it is NOT good enough for 2 weeks of daily deep cycling and the batteries will be alking down in capacity each and every cycle, and each and every cycle where they do not get a true full recharge, will have them then require even longer durations at high absorption voltages, and perhaps a much higher equalizing charge voltage to return specific gravity to its absolute maximum.

It sounds like a converter upgrade is absolutely required in your usage, as it has allowed your batteries to get too low on water, likely with too high a float/maintenance voltage for the battery temperature, not jus tfrom you not checking the level often enough, but the single voltage charger is also not likely to ever be able to tryly fully charge them, as 13.6v for 5 days on a deeply cycled battery might not be able to compete with 4 hours of the same batteries held at 14.4v.

So If you do have to replace those Trojans and want a better automatic converter, then The PD9245 or pd9260 or PD9270, all of these have 14.8v versions and will be a serious upgrade from your existing converter, but to reach true maximum state of charge and maimum specific gravity at which maximum battery longevity is actually achieveable, you might have to override the stages and hold the batteries at a higher voltage for longer. which is simple as pressing a button for 4 more hours of absorption voltage.

If maximum longevity is not a concern then teh automatic algorithm of the PD chargers should be a huge improvement over what you already have, bt you still have the option of forcing any one of the 3 stages, and the 4th stage, while called an Equalization by PD, erronoiusly, is actually jus ta destratification charge by goosing voltage upto absorption voltage for 25 minutes every 18 hours from storage(13.20v) mode.

Trojan's recommended Equalization voltage is 16.2v. if you were to use a good turkey style hydrometer, i suspect your batteries would be in the sub 1.220 range. An extended period of 14.8v might boost tis higher, but not to the 1.280 range where a healthy new set of trojans should reside when fully charged. To get the batteries upto 16.2v for a true eq charge takes more specialized equipment and should only be done after many hours with the batteries held at 14.8v or so.

A tru EQ chrge might restore a significant portion of capacity to your batteries, or it might not, but what is impossible at this point, is even coming close to maximum specific gravity with an old single voltage converter. They stand NO chance whatso ever of getting up into teh 1.75= range at a fixed 13.8v, and there is no guarantee either that high duations of 14.8 follwed by several closely monitored hours of 16.2v will be effective either, but the latter at least stands a chance of capacity/performance improvement.

Once one acquired the tools and skills/knowledge to actually attempt to restore capacity of badly sulfated batteries, then they forever after have the ability and skills to keep their next set of batteries as happy as possible for as long as possible, if they choose to exercise them,

Many will not bother and just replace batteries sooner, and ther is no one 'Right' philosophy regarding the treatment of batteries.

I'd prefer to not treat them as disposable and simply replace when they can't meet my needs. I got sick of new batteries every two years or so, and now use 1/3 the amount of total battery capacity and am well into my 5th year of the same battery, and this is attributal to figuring out what batteries need to reach full charge, and having the equipment and mentality to achieve that, often.

And i have NO Automatic charging source. The closest would be my solar controller, but my solar wattage cannot meet the high amp recharge reqirement of my AGM battery, and this high amp recharge has been a very effective performance restorative.

While all ovr the internet there is a pronounced 'trickle' charge mentality, I think this is absolutely foolish. I say No less than 10 amps per 100Ah of capacity for flooded and no less than 20 per 100 for AGM, and if you have TPPL AGMs by Northstar and Odyssey, feed these Thirsty AGMs no less than 30 to 40 amps per 100AH of capacity when in deep cycle duty.

I regularly feed my 90Ah northstar 65 amps of plug in charging source, and my alternator can feed it upto 106 amps, my Solar on June 21 at noon at 32 north can feed 12.5 amps or so.

All my chargeing sources seek 14.7v and hold it as long as I command.

I have over 1000 deep cycles, hundreds well below 50% state of charge and am well into my 5th year on this battery. This has been my only battery since june 2015, for both house and engine startng duties. I find this most impressive and it is not just because northstar makes a top quality AGM, it is because I can high rate recharge it to a high absorption voltage, and then hold that voltage until the battery reaches full charge. If I could not achieve this this battery would have been recycled long ago.

If you can be bothered to introduce some manual into your charging source, BFL13 can link some powermax products that will allow you to hold absorption voltage for as long as is necessary to maximize specific gravity, quickly, and therefore get the best possible lifespan from your next set of batteries.

My meanwell rsp-500-15 powersupply requires some modification in order to easily, reliably, long term have voltage adjustment, and be able to output its maximum rated amperage indefinitely, so it cannot be recommended for use to those not capable of performing the modifications to the voltage adjustment potentiometer or adding ventilation or heatsinking to promote longevity of the product. I bought mine september 2014 and it has many thousands of hours on it.

If you just wat automatic, then the 3 or 4 stage Progressive dynamics converters are what I would recommend, and the 14.8v versions sold through bestconverter or PD directly are likey the best compromise of automatic for trojans. Do note that their 4th stage they call EQualization is marketing BS, and is not capable of true equalization of 16.2 volts.

Almost No converters have battery temperature compensation though, but in California at sea level this is not all that important. All manufacturer recommended charge voltages assume a battery temperature 77F. Hotter requires lower voltages, lower requires higher voltages, but I would not stress it unless 90s or sub 50's are common and one is trying for maximum possible battery longevity.

[klutchdust]

So this morning I unplugged the shore power then checked the batteries with a load bank then waited 2 hours and checked them again.the needle went to the line between ok and weak it wasn’t in either box, going to let it sit overnight and check it in the morning. I’m not against changing batteries however these are iffy. I am ordering a new 4 stage converter for sure. The tv, I’ll get to that eventually.

[Almot]

Check the nameplate or manual on that 14V TV. Might say something like "from 12V to 15V", then bypass the inverter.

Also, get a small 100-150W solar panel on the roof - with low loads you will always have 13-14V on your batteries in daytime and for part of the evening, even if batteries are near dead. In SoCal this is a no-brainer. New batteries will last longer, too, with constant juice trickling in from solar.

[time2roll]

Yes you can do way better than the 7300. PD4645 is probably the best direct conversion replacement.

http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4645V-45-Amp-Converter-Upgrade

Need to verify the wire size to go more amps. PD9260-14.8 or larger would be fine if the wire is large enough.

http://www.bestconverter.com/9200-148

[landyacht318]

I like the progressive dynamics 92xx series as the automatic stages can be overidden, and they have a 14.8 v version which meets trojan recommended specs.