30 amp RV outlet at home

[kbotley]

I recently converted from a dual hot water tank setup in my house to a single tank resulting in an unused 30amp double pole breaker. I would like to use this breaker and the 10ga wire to power a TTL-30 outlet for my RV when it's in the driveway. Since the double pole is 240V through 2 conductors and I only need 120v is it acceptable to terminate the red conductor and just use the black (hot) white (neutral) and bare (ground) on the double pole breaker?

Thanks

[drsteve]

Hank MI wrote:

Maybe not $5 but you can pick up a single pole breaker for under $10. Excuse me if I was off by a dollar or two

Square D Homeline breakers are less than five bucks.

[drsteve]

Off topic, but for anyone who might be interested, here's an explanation of why marine applications use a switched neutral. http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/ac-electricity-neutral-to-safety-ground-bonding-on-boats...

[Hank_MI]

Bumpyroad wrote:

Hank MI wrote:

RJsfishin wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:
so what people are saying is that with a double pole breaker, both sides must exceed load limit to trip? is that correct?
bumpy

I would have exactly the same question, but when I think of how 240 doesn't use or need a common, its probably true.

Not true in all cases. A straight 240v load, such as a well pump, won't need a common but not all 240v loads are the same. An electric range may use 240v for heating elements and 110v for lichts and controls. That requires a common because it's an unbalanced load.

Because 240v loads are often unbalanced an overload on one leg will trip a double pole breaker. But I would spend the $5 and replace it with a single pole

$5??? when was the last time you bought a breaker 1945?
bumpy

Maybe not $5 but you can pick up a single pole breaker for under $10. Excuse me if I was off by a dollar or two.

[Bob_Landry]

john&bet wrote:

Bob Landry wrote:

john&bet wrote:

Bob Landry wrote:

kbotley wrote:
I recently converted from a dual hot water tank setup in my house to a single tank resulting in an unused 30amp double pole breaker. I would like to use this breaker and the 10ga wire to power a TTL-30 outlet for my RV when it's in the driveway. Since the double pole is 240V through 2 conductors and I only need 120v is it acceptable to terminate the red conductor and just use the black (hot) white (neutral) and bare (ground) on the double pole breaker?

Thanks

Ground does not go through the breaker, It goes to a separate bus to which all of the safety grounds going into the box are attached. It's OK to use just one side of a DP breaker as an over load on the hot leg will cause both of them to trip. I haven't seen it done in residential, but in marine shore power systems we have both hot and neutral going through a DPDT breaker because neutral is considered to be a current carrying leg and both must be broken. Before an armchair electrician jumps on my last statement, our electrical standards are set and regulated by ABYC and the USCG and do not run in lock step with the NEC. I'm simply stating that is is OK to have one side of DPDT breaker unused or it can be used for the neutral leg.

Mr Landry, please do not bring marine electrical info in a discussion of residential or rv electrical info as it is very confusing. It sounds like you are advocating 220v on a 120v rv receptical.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. Obviously you didn't bother to read the entire explanation in context.

I read your whole post and you did not confuse me, but you could confuse others. I take it that in marine applications the neutral is run to the main lugs on the panel thus you only have 120v available. Am I wrong? Have a good day.

In marine applications, the neutral does go to a breaker because neutral is considered to be a current carrying leg. We use a DPDT for the input on 30A and for 50A a three pole breaker is used. Some of our air conditioning uses 240V. The panels we use are electrically the same as household in that 240V is available by using a DPDT breaker. So, like a household panel, we have both 115V and 230V available.

[john_bet]

Bob Landry wrote:

john&bet wrote:

Bob Landry wrote:

kbotley wrote:
I recently converted from a dual hot water tank setup in my house to a single tank resulting in an unused 30amp double pole breaker. I would like to use this breaker and the 10ga wire to power a TTL-30 outlet for my RV when it's in the driveway. Since the double pole is 240V through 2 conductors and I only need 120v is it acceptable to terminate the red conductor and just use the black (hot) white (neutral) and bare (ground) on the double pole breaker?

Thanks

Ground does not go through the breaker, It goes to a separate bus to which all of the safety grounds going into the box are attached. It's OK to use just one side of a DP breaker as an over load on the hot leg will cause both of them to trip. I haven't seen it done in residential, but in marine shore power systems we have both hot and neutral going through a DPDT breaker because neutral is considered to be a current carrying leg and both must be broken. Before an armchair electrician jumps on my last statement, our electrical standards are set and regulated by ABYC and the USCG and do not run in lock step with the NEC. I'm simply stating that is is OK to have one side of DPDT breaker unused or it can be used for the neutral leg.

Mr Landry, please do not bring marine electrical info in a discussion of residential or rv electrical info as it is very confusing. It sounds like you are advocating 220v on a 120v rv receptical.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. Obviously you didn't bother to read the entire explanation in context.

I read your whole post and you did not confuse me, but you could confuse others. I take it that in marine applications the neutral is run to the main lugs on the panel thus you only have 120v available. Am I wrong? Have a good day.

[john_bet]

kbotley wrote:
First of all thanks for all the replies to my post it has been very helpful. The deed is almost done, I have the 10/3 wire run from the main panel out to the side of the house and will install the box tomorrow. I got a real good deal on this panel at Menards

Eaton 30Amp RV Power Outlet with breaker

It has a 30amp breaker and a slot for another breaker.
It has a 3 gang block for ground which I will hook the bare wire to, A 6 gang block for neutral which I will hook my white wire to. My black wire will hook directly to the lug beside the 30amp breaker in the RV panel. Eventually I will install a 15 amp breaker and run some 14/2 to a shed I am planning to build. The red wire from the 10/3 will be connected to the lug beside the 15amp breaker, the black wire from the 14/2 will go to the terminal on the 15amp breaker, the white to the neutral block in the panel and the bare to the ground block in the RV panel. From everything I have read I see no reason that this isn't a viable solution. I do not understand the conversation about breaking the neutral. Should I be concerned?

The neutral does not get broken at all period.

[kbotley]

First of all thanks for all the replies to my post it has been very helpful. The deed is almost done, I have the 10/3 wire run from the main panel out to the side of the house and will install the box tomorrow. I got a real good deal on this panel at Menards

Eaton 30Amp RV Power Outlet with breaker

It has a 30amp breaker and a slot for another breaker.
It has a 3 gang block for ground which I will hook the bare wire to, A 6 gang block for neutral which I will hook my white wire to. My black wire will hook directly to the lug beside the 30amp breaker in the RV panel. Eventually I will install a 15 amp breaker and run some 14/2 to a shed I am planning to build. The red wire from the 10/3 will be connected to the lug beside the 15amp breaker, the black wire from the 14/2 will go to the terminal on the 15amp breaker, the white to the neutral block in the panel and the bare to the ground block in the RV panel. From everything I have read I see no reason that this isn't a viable solution. I do not understand the conversation about breaking the neutral. Should I be concerned?

[Bob_Landry]

john&bet wrote:

Bob Landry wrote:

kbotley wrote:
I recently converted from a dual hot water tank setup in my house to a single tank resulting in an unused 30amp double pole breaker. I would like to use this breaker and the 10ga wire to power a TTL-30 outlet for my RV when it's in the driveway. Since the double pole is 240V through 2 conductors and I only need 120v is it acceptable to terminate the red conductor and just use the black (hot) white (neutral) and bare (ground) on the double pole breaker?

Thanks

Ground does not go through the breaker, It goes to a separate bus to which all of the safety grounds going into the box are attached. It's OK to use just one side of a DP breaker as an over load on the hot leg will cause both of them to trip. I haven't seen it done in residential, but in marine shore power systems we have both hot and neutral going through a DPDT breaker because neutral is considered to be a current carrying leg and both must be broken. Before an armchair electrician jumps on my last statement, our electrical standards are set and regulated by ABYC and the USCG and do not run in lock step with the NEC. I'm simply stating that is is OK to have one side of DPDT breaker unused or it can be used for the neutral leg.

Mr Landry, please do not bring marine electrical info in a discussion of residential or rv electrical info as it is very confusing. It sounds like you are advocating 220v on a 120v rv receptical.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. Obviously you didn't bother to read the entire explanation in context.

[john_bet]

Bob Landry wrote:

kbotley wrote:
I recently converted from a dual hot water tank setup in my house to a single tank resulting in an unused 30amp double pole breaker. I would like to use this breaker and the 10ga wire to power a TTL-30 outlet for my RV when it's in the driveway. Since the double pole is 240V through 2 conductors and I only need 120v is it acceptable to terminate the red conductor and just use the black (hot) white (neutral) and bare (ground) on the double pole breaker?

Thanks

Ground does not go through the breaker, It goes to a separate bus to which all of the safety grounds going into the box are attached. It's OK to use just one side of a DP breaker as an over load on the hot leg will cause both of them to trip. I haven't seen it done in residential, but in marine shore power systems we have both hot and neutral going through a DPDT breaker because neutral is considered to be a current carrying leg and both must be broken. Before an armchair electrician jumps on my last statement, our electrical standards are set and regulated by ABYC and the USCG and do not run in lock step with the NEC. I'm simply stating that is is OK to have one side of DPDT breaker unused or it can be used for the neutral leg.

Mr Landry, please do not bring marine electrical info in a discussion of residential or rv electrical info as it is very confusing. It sounds like you are advocating 220v on a 120v rv receptical.

[john_bet]

kbotley wrote:

drsteve wrote:
No. The breaker will not function properly in case of an overload. It's also a code violation. Just get a single pole 30 and use it with your #10 wire.

That is my main concern that the breaker wouldn't trip on a 30 amp load on one leg of the double pole breaker.

No worries it will. But best to use a single pole. No confusion.

[Dutch_12078]

Bumpyroad wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

Bob Landry wrote:
I'm simply stating that is is OK to have one side of DPDT breaker unused or it can be used for the neutral leg.

but the "unused" half of the breaker would be connected internally to the other "hot" side of the box???
bumpy

There is no internal electrical connection between the two legs of the breaker. If one side overloads, both sides will trip, but that's just a mechanical connection. One side not being connected will not effect the breaker operation for the connected side.

I thought I remember that the 240 volt breakers (dual 120s) was that they clipped onto the "buss bars????" separately so they would get 240 volts. thus both breakers would be hooked to a separate/different hot lead. don't see how you could use one for a neutral? in this case.
bumpy

Yes, you are correct that the second breaker section could not be used for the neutral in that scenario. There's no need to breaker protect the neutral for this installation though.

[Heisenberg]

If one leg of a 2 pole breaker exceeds rated current they both trip off clear open etc.

[Bob_Landry]

wa8yxm wrote:
How about this.. Put a 50 amp outlet in that box. Feed it with the 30 amp breakers and wire.. Then you use a dogbone to plug in the RV, but if you ever get a bigger RV... Well my 50 amp rig, if you are just a little careful.. gets by just fine on a 30/30 120/240 volt outlet.. You just need to be a little careful is all, and to know what is on each leg,

But that might be the best use of your existing resources and will counter those code talkers in this thread since you will be delivering all 4 wires, properly to an outlet more than heavy enough to take what 30 amp berakers can give 'em.

Mixing components in a circuit of different ratings and capacities is a bad idea at best and a disaster at worst. The OP needs to run either a 30A service with 30a breakers and #10 wire, or a 50A service with 50A breakers and #6 wire

[Bob_Landry]

Bumpyroad wrote:

Dutch_12078 wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

Bob Landry wrote:
I'm simply stating that is is OK to have one side of DPDT breaker unused or it can be used for the neutral leg.

but the "unused" half of the breaker would be connected internally to the other "hot" side of the box???
bumpy

There is no internal electrical connection between the two legs of the breaker. If one side overloads, both sides will trip, but that's just a mechanical connection. One side not being connected will not effect the breaker operation for the connected side.

I thought I remember that the 240 volt breakers (dual 120s) was that they clipped onto the "buss bars????" separately so they would get 240 volts. thus both breakers would be hooked to a separate/different hot lead. don't see how you could use one for a neutral? in this case.
bumpy

For 50A service, yes, but the OP is installing a 30A service, so all he really needs is a single breaker unless he wants to break the neutral line also. I personally recommend that, but some may is agree. If he chooses to use a single breaker and not switch neutral, then the unconnected breaker has no effect on the system even though it will trip if connected to the one being used. The other unused 115V wire is just capped and tucked away.