3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[toprudder]

Lots of harmonic content! If I get a chance (probably not soon) I'll hook a scope up to my Onan and a couple of other generators that I have.

[RadioNeal]

Having WAY too much time on my hands today, I hooked my scope up to the ELM3000 and I took a few pictures of the ELM3000 running at different loads.

This first one is the ELM3000 at 2.5 Amp load.

This image is the waveform of the ELM3000 with a 10 Amp load.

This last one is the ELM3000 Running an 18 Amp load.

My Ride... Just for fun!

Cheers!

[Richie1]

Hi folks,

This is my first post here. I was looking for a low cost generator and found a link to this forum. A lot of great information on the ELM3000. I just purchased it and have to unpack it. I was a bit late in getting the rebate, but I was still able to get it for $249.00. Thanks for all the great information you all provided.

Richie

[catalina30]

this thread is how I came to this great resource, also why I looked into the output of my Nikota genset. I have a few answers for the group conserning the genset for those people that have them.
1. they can be wired to put all power thru one 115v line, the leads are at the back of the head, just split it there.
2. the 10A breaker listing in the manual is wrong, mine has 13A breakers.
3. the head is what is rated at the wattage on all of the gensets I have looked at, not the motor.
4. the amature on the generator has a power coil that is feed thru diodes to produce the power for the field( true brushless genset)however the manual was not clear on this.
5. bought it to run a 3hp 3phs softstart motor, no problems here.
6. expanded plans to require more 115 power, rewired with a DPDT switch to control from 115 to 240 this works fine. 220 should however have linked breakers they aren't, so took the breakers out and will use a box with house breakers. one will be 15A 220 breaker when use as a 220 unit. the other breakers will be 1 15A breaker for use when 220 is inabled and a 30A breaker for when the unit is switched to 115.
7. I am sure that the manufacturer of this unit said 10A to keep the unqualified from over loading the genset for long time limits, therefore making the genset last longer(just call it derated for reliablity)this stays with what the professor said about usage. The motor is reliable and looks like a honda, this is one of the points that brought me to by the unit, I just figured that Maybe I could use honda parts if needed, the carb said designed in J A Pan, don't know for sure but it was my gamble. Motors can be replaced later if needed. because the head is rated at 3500W. using it to power 30A load is no problem for me, if the engine will not supply, at least the head will not burn up.

Although the company is no longer in business, the motors are still being made. I believe that for the extra rating this is a good buy. with a little investment of time it is easy to convert to 115v only, making it a great supply of 30A TT service. no brushes on the head has good points(no service needed) and bad points( a control circuit can keep a steady 115v regulated if you can control the field).

In the posts I have seen there is comment about Gfci cords, although I am not that familiar with these products I will state that gfci is not a breaker in most cases. therefore if it is rated at 20A that does not mean 20A protection as in breaker. only that the device will handle 20A, please check into this. also if you do not have a good ground the gfci will not do what it is intended to do, that is protect you from a fault, or at least not as well as it should, I can't see driving a ground rod in at every stop so don't look for to much protection from one in this application. Dogbones are OK for the lowest rating in the system. one end of the dogbone is rated at 115v 15 or 20A this is all you should expect out of it(if the outlet on your genset is rated at 20A don't try to get more as this is what it is rated for. if there is not a 30A recept. on the pannel then the generator is really not rated for 30A at 115V it is rated at the weakest value here per NEC. I would guess that because Nokita was rated and followed some very good design standards, they got a bad rapp. It was designed with safety in mind that is why I bought one over the other models. Kind of like buying an IBM PC back when they derated for quality, while everyone else sold for speed. My only other option would have been to go to a 4000 or more genset so I would not have to worry about over extending the head.

Catalina30
C30 E/sailboat, 73Silverstreak TT, Dakota sport

[Guest]

This from a reference book in my desk:

Perception of Changes in Sound

Sound Level Change
in Decibels

3 = Barely noticeable
5 = Clearly perceptible
10 = Twice as loud

I think the key here is "perceived" change. At any rate that's where I got my 10dB = twice as loud comment earlier.

[RadioNeal]

Last year I was without utility supplied power for 8 days after hurricane Frances. I ran my IBM compatible computer and 19" ViewSonic CRT type monitor off an ancient (15+ years old) Coleman PM1500 portable generator (Rated 1200 watts) I used to use for camping. The computer ran just fine, but I did have to disconnect my UPS unit first. The UPS kept switching on and off, thinking the power was "Bad."

I also successfully ran my DSL modem and router. Unlike our local cable operator, my DSL line was back in service 24 hours after the storm. I also ran a couple of electric fans at the same time, and a 100 watt lamp, switching the fans on only after the computer was up and running.

IBM compatible computers use switching power supplies which will take poor quality A/C with an ugly waveform and produce nice, clean DC. They are not very frequency sensitive either.

I would suggest the following procedure:

1. Fire up the generator.

2. Apply a small load, such an a 100 watt lamp. This will help stabilize the output of the generator.

3. Plug in the computer and monitor through a surge suppressor Do not try to use a UPS backup power supply. It may switch on and off rapidly and cause damage to itself or the computer.

4. Switch on the monitor and wait a few seconds.

5 Turn the computer on.

When done, reverse the process.

The caveat here is that each computer & generator is different, so there are no guarantees. If possible, test with an old computer and monitor if available before plugging in your brand new top of the line one.

Cheers!

[n7bsn]

Fastfwd101 wrote:
Hey professor don’t remember if this q has been asked but is the power from the Elim 3000 computer friendly. I have been thinking about getting a Honda 3000, but if these are equivalent in power and I know they are a bit louder; by 9 dbs, it may be worth ordering one and having it shipped to me. Any thoughts, thanks

These "cheap" generators generate AC the same way the power companies do.

I've ran much expensive electronics off cheap contractor grade gen-sets and the only issue it time-keeping. (they often don't produce exactly 60Hz)

[mkmathis]

Bigdog wrote:
Boy, has this ever been an experience....
Now what I want to know is are they quiet enuff for an afternoon and early evening in an average campground setting for using your micro,A/C and charging the batteries and how much time does enneyone have on theirs to determine reliability. (outside of the guy that burned out the bearings after 12 straight hours and they may even have been American ones too)...
No I don't mean race tracks either,even though my cousin is the stats keeper at Thunder Valley in Penn.

I was very impressed with how quiet it was sitting in the back of my truck bed. It was defintely quieter than my buddies onan that his TH has in it. Walking through other areas where people were at proved to me that it was as quiet as almost any gen I walked by...I do not think that anyone will be disappointed about the sound.

[Fastfwd101]

Hey professor don’t remember if this q has been asked but is the power from the Elim 3000 computer friendly. I have been thinking about getting a Honda 3000, but if these are equivalent in power and I know they are a bit louder; by 9 dbs, it may be worth ordering one and having it shipped to me. Any thoughts, thanks

[RadioNeal]

Assuming the generator was operating in open air, not in some kind of enclosure, I can't see where operating it for 12 hours straight is unusual or would cause a bearing to fail. Generators are made for continuous operation. If I wanted intermittant power, I could just rely on my local utility for that. (Here in South Florida, we call it "Darkness by FP&L.")

I guess it's time for you to see how good the PowerWise waranty is. They ought to fix or replace it, having only a dozen hours on it. Keep us posted. I hate it when new things fail, and for what it's worth, I share your pain and agravation.

mkmathis wrote:
Well, I took out my Powerwise 3500w for the first time this weekend. I left it in the bed of my truck and it seemed quieter than most Rv's around. I actually fell asleep watching a movie and I woke up to it still running. But it sounded very odd(like a blender with ice in it) so went and turned it off and started checking it out. I found a bearing at the end of the alternator part had seized and exploded causing a horrible sound. I am not sure if this is my fault for running it 12 hours or so straight or if it is just bad.

[RadioNeal]

The parts manual also seems to show 3 different fuel tanks and two different muffler assemblies.

[RadioNeal]

Parts book link works now. Maybe they had a power failure & didn't have a generator handy;-)

[RadioNeal]

In looking at page 37 of the parts manual, the ELM3000 front panel design is different as well. It doesn't show the duplex receptacle. It also shows only 1 circuit breaker.

It looks like this is perhaps a parts book for a similar model sold in a country which uses 220 Volt power as its standard. Perhaps the brushless design is only used in units destined for 110 Volt countries.

Cheers!

[Smokeman]

This is the link but it doesn't seem to be working now.

http://www.eliminternational.com/Partsbooks/eliminator/ELM3000-partsbook.pdf

[RadioNeal]

I went to the Elminiator site to download the manual and got a message saying the requested document couldn't be found on this server.

Is there a different site or link?

Please post the address of the link you used to download the manual.

Cheers!