3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Horizon170]

Mr. Griswold, How was the noise comparison between the two 3000's on the tailgates? And by how much if noticeable?

[Clark_W__Griswo]

Barton Family wrote:
I need to make a decision on a generator for a rapidly approaching outing and I am at a complete impass as to what to do.

I like my ELIM 3000 very much for how I use it. I will rely on it completely 2 or 3 times a year (when tailgaiting) and for backup power when the electricity goes off at our campground. The noise level seems to be OK. My neighbors didn't mind.

For the price and the way I am using it I like my choice.

On a tailgaiting trip last year our next door neighbor was using a Honda 3000 and I liked it very much. The difference between him and I was that he tailgates many times a year. This would be a good choice if you will be putting up many hours.

My thoughts: $279 vs $1700- I will take my chances. So far so good!

[Barton_Family]

I need to make a decision on a generator for a rapidly approaching outing and I am at a complete impass as to what to do. I've already made a $700 mistake in buying the Generac 4000XL which is now just rotting in my garage because it is too noisy for a campground. Gone over and over the 109 pages of this thread and just when I think I am ready to move on something, another point comes up to change my mind. I started out looking at the ELM-3000. Then all the rewiring stuff came about. I looked at the Kipor 3500ti, but for $1100 it is within 3 decibles of the ELM-3000 or ELM-3600SS and I really don't need the cleaner "inverter" techology for my uses, since it is not as quiet as the Hondas of the same type anyway. I see the ELM-3600SS and it seems like the way to go. Lighter, quieter, wheel kit, better made than the ELM-3000. But now it turns out the way it is wired it is made better for home backup use than RV use. Some say the ELM-3000 is quiet enough for camgrounds, then others say they are not. While there is an incredible amount of helpful information in this thread, I am more confused than ever.

For those of you with the ELM-3000 units, are they, in your opinion, quiet enough for campground use? If not, can they be made to be that way with modifications to the muffler or by other means? The 3600SS apears to be made better made and is marketed on the distributor's site under the "RV USE" selection. But it has been pointed out that this is not a good unit for our use because of the way it is set up. Is there a relatively easy fix for that?

I am sorry to post so many questions but there are no units for me to "test" in my area, no way to know if these units are really quiet enough without buying one, then being stuck with it as I am my Generac. I really cannot afford to buy another unit only to find it is too loud and then not be able to return it. The only way for me to find this out is from those of you who have and use these gensets and know firsthand how they work.

Please provide your suggestions and feedback as to what you think the best course of action would be. That is the most valuable input and source of information anyone could ask for.

Thanks!

[presp]

MELM wrote:
I'll put it briefly... If you don't understand, please review the Forum Rules.

In spite of the forum "rules" it was certainly nice having some direct
manufacturer knowledge and open support.
Even forums that don't have such restrictions seldom find any manufacturer willing to take the time to address specific questions and user problems in a public manner.
It is/was great Mr. Pearcy was willing to spend the time do that.
(Kudos 2U while it lasted)

His mention of Jinling as the Chinese source brought up some interesting info, using Google.
For example:
http://www.eliminatorusa.com does not mention (that I could find) a few very nice features of the ELM-3600-SS(Jinling).

Like its a brushless design generator head (rather than like the brush
design used in my Nikota 3500). It lasts longer, produces less electrical noise but costs more to make.
(darn, why is that so frequently the case)

Also has an automatic compression release to make manual starting easier..

The following description came from:
http://www.1st-business-world.com/advt/detail.php?cat=21&de=97
... "JINLING generators have new JINLING engines with reliable four stroke design and exacted cast-iron cylinder sleeve for longer service life, an automatic decompression release and maintenance free electronic ignition, that gives you quick and easy starting, and a special low oil level sensor that will automatically stop the engine before low oil damage can happen. JINLING engines are overhead valve design and produce more power and are more fuel and oil efficient than equal ratings of conventional side valve engines. JINLING generators are design is "Brushless" and it gives you a new exclusive winding feature...."
http://www.jinlingcn.com/
----

This is the type of information that should be emphasized by the mfg
as to why their model costs more, rather than just more profit.

Pres

[MELM]

I'll put it briefly... If you don't understand, please review the Forum Rules.

The posts that disappeared were from someone that represents a commercial business. It was blatant in his posts. That is a violation of forum rules.

I'm afraid he got in a while back and I missed it. It gets messy when the commercial folks start using the forum and get by with it for a while... Sorry I didn't catch it earlier.

I took a quick glance at recent posts, and I won't edit or delete any tonight; but we may do so in the near future.

Mel

[in_da_keys]

hgarraway wrote:
A few minutes ago I looked at the previous page and there was a reply by John Pearcy to Professor 95's post relative to the manufacturer of the ELIM 3600. The post seems to have disappeared mysteriously. John said the manufacturer was Jinling. I wish some of the larger domestic corporations were as tuned in to their customers as ELIM seems to be.

Just curious if anyone else saw the phantom post. Maybe I've just been breathing too close to the muffler of my trusty little ELIM 3000!

I saw it as well, or I have been breathing too close to the muffler of my phantom little ELIM 3000!

Have not got one yet, but almost ready to take the plung.

[hgarraway]

A few minutes ago I looked at the previous page and there was a reply by John Pearcy to Professor 95's post relative to the manufacturer of the ELIM 3600. The post seems to have disappeared mysteriously. John said the manufacturer was Jinling. I wish some of the larger domestic corporations were as tuned in to their customers as ELIM seems to be.

Just curious if anyone else saw the phantom post. Maybe I've just been breathing too close to the muffler of my trusty little ELIM 3000!

[jmhouse]

Thanks for the input. I will be replacing the outlets with heavy duty ones. Hopefully this will clear up the fluctuations. As for the smoke, yes the unity was turned upside down and sideways so I'm sure it will clear up then. The only damage the unit had was actually on the inside behind the front panel!?! The plastic cover that is over the outlets and everything was smashed. Elim replaced the shattered breaker and is sending a replacement breaker for the cracked one and a new voltmeter.

Thanks again.

Hey, I got to start page 110.....:B

[Red_Clay_Ramble]

jmhouse,

I had a voltage fluctuation issue with my ELM 3000 until I replaced the stock outlets with better quality----no more fluctuation.

Smoke from exhaust? Not normal, could be that your unit was turned upside down for awhile in transit and oil flowed to places it shouldn't. Didn't you say it was damaged when you received it? Bet it layed/dropped on it's side or upside down during shipping. Smoke should clear up eventually, how much have you run it so far?

[Barton_Family]

professor95 wrote:
I personally would steer away from a product like the ELM3600SS if the distributor would not share who initially built the unit.

I have to say that I agree with the Professor wholeheartedly on this point. Seen to many, and been among those burned by retailers and manfacturers who don't want to play by the rules. Selling used/refurbished parts as new and so on.

That's a shame too because I really like the specs on the 3600ss, and if it will work for my camper application without requiring a rewire, which I don't think has been answered as yet, that would have been the clincher for me. Now I'm a bit hesitant. Seems like an odd statement that the CEO wouldn't want that information relayed. If it was a quality company, that would be a huge sales tool. The opposite can be said for witholding that information. IMHO

[professor95]

JPearcy wrote:
Except for Launtop, who we have a special agreement with, I don’t think the CEO here wants me saying exactly who the manufacturer is.

I think you may need to talk to your CEO. In an era of global economies we are finding many different companies retailing products built by a single host company. This is true of tires, motor oil, washing machines, electronics, and a whole lot more. I buy Wal-Mart motor oil becausee I know it is packaged by Valvoline. I buy Kenmore appliances since most are made by Whirlpool. I bought a Craftsman 10" table saw because I knew it was manufactured by Rigid. If the distributor doesn't have the parts or service I may need in the future, I have somewhere else to go. The list goes on......

When a distributor hesitates to reveal who is the actual manufacturer of their product, I immediately assume that they have something to hide. Maybe the distributor doesn't want us to know possibly because there has been some bad press on similar models from the source manufacturer? Maybe it is such a small jump-start company that there will be no brand recognition and buyers will be discouraged because parts may become unavailable? Maybe you are selling relabeled Nikota units left over from their bankruptcy liquidation? Such could easily be the case with your company and the CEO's response. Consumers want to know what they are buying and which company not only stands behind the product but will be able to supply parts in the future.

I personally would steer away from a product like the ELM3600SS if the distributor would not share who initially built the unit.

[kilgtfish]

To Curly2001:

You were asking about rewiring your Power Pro3500. I have one, and rewired according to posts on this thread. See pic:

This schematic was created by another member of the forum.

These reconnections were all done down at the generator head where they hook to a terminal strip. Very easy to do, and It made a lot of difference in the voltage drop when operating my A/C. Instead of dropping from 120v to 108v or so......it only drops down to about 116v.
Tom

[LittleBill]

whs9841 wrote:
I just received my new ELIM3000 yesterday. I checked all of the bolts and screws and everything seems pretty tight. My only problem is it didn't come with an owner's manual. Can I just add 10W-30 oil and gasoline and start it up?

Thanks in advance.

Trey

yes the manual is a joke, 10w 30 is what i used, filled to the bottom of the screw threads of the dipstick

[whs9841]

I just received my new ELIM3000 yesterday. I checked all of the bolts and screws and everything seems pretty tight. My only problem is it didn't come with an owner's manual. Can I just add 10W-30 oil and gasoline and start it up?

Thanks in advance.

Trey

[jmhouse]

Ok, I received and installed the replacement breaker for my ELM-3000 refurb. Thanks to Emilie at eliminternational! Turns out the breaker along with the voltmeter were literally smashed. Anyway I have two questions regarding the ELM-3000.

1) I seem to getting a considerable amount of smoke from the exhaust. Is this normal?

2) I have an analog voltmeter plugged into an outlet in my TT. When the AC is running the meter needle bounces (pulsates) alot. Mind you that the AC works great while on the genset. The pulsing seems to match the sound from the AC compressor. Also the voltage never drops below the 114v mark while doing this. Is this normal?

Thanks to all on this forum, there is a wealth of information here.