3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Dubman]

Pirate wrote:
I followed this topic when it began but lost it after I went camping. Too much to read and I tried to search. What I'm looking for is info I thought the professor posted about using some form of circuit breaker with the elim3000. Anyone remember reading something like that?

Were you referring to using a GFCI between TT and genset?? If so, check out these posts. Link . Also, in order to take advantage of all available power, you should have both breakers on front of genset on.. Hope this helps...

[Pirate1]

I followed this topic when it began but lost it after I went camping. Too much to read and I tried to search. What I'm looking for is info I thought the professor posted about using some form of circuit breaker with the elim3000. Anyone remember reading something like that?

[LittleBill]

for those of you that changed the outlet in your elim 3000, did u notice that after ripping out the outlet the wires were reversed for the polarity? my brown wire was on the left side and the white wire is on the right? shouldn't this be reversed?

just checking to see if anyone else ran into this


well i took some pictures to make sure i did it correct, please check and let me know, i also did the 220v mod to make it standard to us and not European

the first 2 pictures are what the wiring was like before i changed it, only i loosened the white wire, don't think it was just hanging there.



notice how the brown wire is connected to the wrong side? both the white and the brown need to be switched.





now my rewire job, i removed the yellow and green wire from the 220v socket, but there was also a green wire running to the on and off switch that wasn't mentioned. i moved this wire over to the ground part of the 120 recp. i ran 2 16guage wires over from the netural side of the 120v to the ground side of the 220v plug to make the unit work correctly for my house. notice the orginal ground wire is heat shrinked close for no problems



final button up of machine

[Superfreak]

skipper,
I never pulled the micro apart to look for fuses, but I figured if it ran fine on shore power any internal fuses would have to be ok.

[skipper]

Superfreak wrote:
Last week I posted about my wildfire generator not powering up the Dometic microwave and have been fiddling with it ever since. The micro worked fine with shore power but not with the genny. I went as far as trying a total of 3 different size and brand gennys with no luck. I ended up pulling the micro out of the TT any plugging it directly into the generator. Still nothing. So that eliminated anything with TT wiring and such. I went into the house and grabbed the Whirpool micro outta the kitchen and plugged it into the genny and voila it worked. Upon further inspection it was the exact same size as the Dometic. I unscrewed the mount from the Dometic, installed it on the Whirlpool(screw holes even matched)and put it in the TT. I wonder how long it'll take the wife to figure theres a different micro in the kitchen? So there must be something in the electronics of the micro that wasnt too fond of the genny. Dont know how many others may have this problem but thought I'd share what I'd found.
Rick

Most if not all microwave units have a fuse or braker inside the case .Did you check for one.? Skipper entry level over fifty years

[Clark_W__Griswo]

Barton Family wrote:

Okay, here is where I must plead ignorance. Are any generators permitted at night in a campground, even the quiet, inverter types? I like to be cool when I sleep and it is equally important to me to run the AC at night as it is in the daylight hours. Someone on another thread about the Kipor 3500it (bear in mind that the Kipor is 5db louder than the Honda 3000 at full load and 3db less than the ELM-3000 at full load, same distance, 23 feet) said it was just barely noticable over his roof AC when standing outside, so running at night as far and noise is concerned would not be being a bad neighbor. But that doesn't mean the campgrounds will allow it either. What have you folks found?

I would say "No" in most campgrounds. But, if you are staying in a place where there are no hookups and other campers are using them then obviously it would be OK. (Nascar races, tailgaiting at ballgames, etc.) "When in Rome....."

For us, it is usually not an issue. We know ahead of time what we are getting. We almost always stay at campgrounds with hookups. But we do take a couple of trips a year that do not have hookups.

[MrWizard]

Barton Family wrote:

Clark W. Griswold wrote:
But IMO in the right situation the ELIM 3000 would be one that you could run throughout the daylight hours in a campground without much problem.

Okay, here is where I must plead ignorance. Are any generators permitted at night in a campground, even the quiet, inverter types? I like to be cool when I sleep and it is equally important to me to run the AC at night as it is in the daylight hours. Someone on another thread about the Kipor 3500it (bear in mind that the Kipor is 5db louder than the Honda 3000 at full load and 3db less than the ELM-3000 at full load, same distance, 23 feet) said it was just barely noticable over his roof AC when standing outside, so running at night as far and noise is concerned would not be being a bad neighbor. But that doesn't mean the campgrounds will allow it either. What have you folks found?

to my knowledge theanswer is NO

I have never been in a campground that allowed a generator at night. an exception might be made for somebody if they needed a cpap machine and parked in the overflow away lot away from everybody else

if A/C is that important, try getting a 12 volt evaporative cooler for nightime use or campgrounds with hookups like KOA

[brandyspaw]

I agree. I don't think Mr Pearcy was there to sell his products as much as provide followup information. For example, it was good of him explaining the shipping problems with UPS and the packaging changes they made to correct it. .
After all, he was in engineering-not the VP of sales and marketing.

[guy48065]

If the rules state that commercial interests are not allowed to post, then that rule needs to be changed. I'm aware of the type of abuse that goes on in some other forums, but I'm also a participant in forums where manufacturers are allowed to educate but NOT promote. Those particular forums are more enlightening. Mr. Pearcy often walked the line between information and promotion but I feel he never quite crossed that line. His input was factual and appreciated. I suppose we can continue in our conjecture and 'reverse engineering' these gensets but I for one feel it was a big mistake to silence this particular "horse's mouth".
Censorship isn't always bad, but when done without common sense everybody loses.

MELM wrote:
I'll put it briefly... If you don't understand, please review the Forum Rules.

The posts that disappeared were from someone that represents a commercial business. It was blatant in his posts. That is a violation of forum rules.

I'm afraid he got in a while back and I missed it. It gets messy when the commercial folks start using the forum and get by with it for a while... Sorry I didn't catch it earlier.

I took a quick glance at recent posts, and I won't edit or delete any tonight; but we may do so in the near future.

Mel

[Barton_Family]

Clark W. Griswold wrote:
But IMO in the right situation the ELIM 3000 would be one that you could run throughout the daylight hours in a campground without much problem.

Okay, here is where I must plead ignorance. Are any generators permitted at night in a campground, even the quiet, inverter types? I like to be cool when I sleep and it is equally important to me to run the AC at night as it is in the daylight hours. Someone on another thread about the Kipor 3500it (bear in mind that the Kipor is 5db louder than the Honda 3000 at full load and 3db less than the ELM-3000 at full load, same distance, 23 feet) said it was just barely noticable over his roof AC when standing outside, so running at night as far and noise is concerned would not be being a bad neighbor. But that doesn't mean the campgrounds will allow it either. What have you folks found?

[toprudder]

Horizon170 wrote:
Mr. Moderator, Why am I only getting 55 pages now when earlier I was reading page 109?
tia

I'm really confused now. I did a Gooogle search and got the same thread on RV.net, Woodalls and Trailer Life. Only on Trailer Life can I get the full 110 pages.

If you go under "my forums/my preferences" you can set the number of posts per page, which can be either 10 or 20. I think this information is stored as a cookie on your computer, and may be specific for each of the sites (rv.net,woodalls,trailer life). The default is 10.

[toprudder]

Horizon170 wrote:
Professor95, Please tell me the difference between FL and LR amps?

Pardon me for jumping in, but LR = locked rotor, FL = full load. FL will be the max current pulled under steady state, while LR will the the starting current at the instant power is applied to the motor(s).

[Clark_W__Griswo]

The Honda was a bit quieter. You can check the specs on both and compare the difference. The only problem we have, is that many tailgaters use the contractor grade generators. Quite annoying. With these running anywhere near it is hard to hear anything. When you have to stay close to one of these generators it makes you appreciate the ELIM 3000. It is considerably quieter than these types.
These types of generators would never be acceptable in the campground. But IMO in the right situation the ELIM 3000 would be one that you could run throughout the daylight hours in a campground without much problem.
I am sure that many would say that you get what you pay for, and I am sure that is true in this case as well. But, I figure that I can buy 5 ELIM to one Honda. If it lasts 2 years I figure I got my money's worth. Whereas the Honda may go for many years beyond.
I think it comes down to how you will be using your generator as to how much you want to invest.

Just my $.02

[Horizon170]

Professor95, Please tell me the difference between FL and LR amps?

I have a Construction type generator with a Briggs engine.
KVA 2.6
Peak 2600W
Cont. 2350W

In my B van I have an AC 7100 BTU
Kilowatts 1.2
FL amp compressor 8.1/Motor 2.9 (I think this means running amps)
LR amp Compressor 34.2/Motor 6.6 (and this means starting amps)

The generator will operate with the AC plus a 750 watt microvave but I don't know if I run the chance of burning it up with both the AC & MW running.

In looking at the Gen. schematics T1 and T3 (black) go thru the same 20 amp Circuit Breaker and then to the proper side of the Duplex receptacle. T2 and T4 (white) go to the other side of the receptacle with a jumper to the ground (green) and then to chassis ground. It appears to me that your two pigtail to 30 amp line adapter or the store bought brand would work OK with this receptacle.

Is 20 amp CB the correct size?
The voltage is 110 under load.

[Horizon170]

Mr. Moderator, Why am I only getting 55 pages now when earlier I was reading page 109?
tia

I'm really confused now. I did a Gooogle search and got the same thread on RV.net, Woodalls and Trailer Life. Only on Trailer Life can I get the full 110 pages.