3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Kamphiker]

Pep Boys is advertising the PowerPro 3500 for $ 279.99 in their Newspaper flyer. Limit 2

Normal cost $ 319.99

Now If I can get the Wife to understand why I need 2 and it's on sale..........

[blazer8]

The 3500 is 220V because of two seperate 110V lines to the twistlock outlet. Assuming the 2200 is the same wiring setup, removing one wire from the 220 outlet will cut that voltage in half. In order to get 220 from that outlet you must be using a 4 prong male end. That would include two hot lines, one neutral line, and the ground.

[fallsrider]

fallsrider wrote:
My question now is...has anyone figured out an inexpensive way to add a 15-amp breaker instead of the 13 amp that comes with the 3,500? I would like to have the ability to run my air compressor if it will. If not, then I can live with that.

Also, considering I only removed one wire from the 220v. outlet, does it now have 120v., or is it dead?

Bump

The above quote is referring to the PowerPro 2200.

[bobkat35]

Good Info.

[blazer8]

Today I ran my A/C and microwave on high for five minutes without any trouble. I rewired the PowerPro 3500 but did not change any breakers. For my purposes this is fine.

[Skibane]

Marine Guy wrote:
On any other engine, including a 2 stroke, the carburetor with no fuel in it will surely begin to rapidly develop a varnish like build up(the air will evaporate the remaining fuel, leaving behind an unwanted gift of ‘muck’) and the needle valves, jets, float, etc. will be very unhappy, causing poor starting/running performance or will not start at all.

In an engine that's been run "dry", there's really not much fuel left in the carb to go bad. Also, some carbs have a drain plug at the bottom of the fuel bowl.

Fuel that has been treated with stabilizers eventually goes bad, too.

[Marine_Guy]

Hello - new guy here. Just wanted to throw out some info. regarding fuel (gasoline). Here in California, a few years back, our gasoline had an effective additive that helped to stabilize it. In many cases, the fuel was good for about a year without any major degradation. But, the 'political engineers' decided to oxygenate the fuel to help us out with cleaner air. (I have a few opinions about this approach . . .) When they did this, out came the 'stabilizer’ resulting in a fuel that pretty much goes down hill drastically in about 21 days. Of course most of us use a tank of fuel sooner than this, but for all the boats, chain saws, outboard motors, motor homes, etc. in the world, there develops a problem; bad gas. The bad things are, once the fuel has ‘crashed’, it is not possible to bring it back to life – even with adding a fuel stabilizer. Only diluting it with fresh fuel will make whatever engine you’re trying to start, somewhat happy. So, the key to keeping your fuel fresh while being ‘stored’ is to add a fuel stabilizer to the fuel at fill up.
My second item has to do with “running out the fuel” in your 2 cycle engine and or 4 stroke engine. OMC(outboards) says that if you run the fuel out of the carburetor – and this applies to any 2 stroke engine – there is virtually no effective lubrication available for a second or two when first staring up the engine. This is bad for the cylinder walls, rings, bearing, etc. due to excessive frictional wear. Both fuel and oil mix helps to lubricate these internal trinkets. On any other engine, including a 2 stroke, the carburetor with no fuel in it will surely begin to rapidly develop a varnish like build up(the air will evaporate the remaining fuel, leaving behind an unwanted gift of ‘muck’) and the needle valves, jets, float, etc. will be very unhappy, causing poor starting/running performance or will not start at all. I can’t count the number of times I have had a customer tell me his engine was running great 4 months ago but now cannot get it started. One look at the ‘dry’ carburetor was sufficient. Take it off and apart, clean it, put it back together, install it, fill it with fuel and she would be back humming again. Truly, a good procedure to follow is: when adding fuel, put in a fuel stabilizer. Don’t run it ‘dry, you’ll just increase the severity of muck developing. Hope this helps.

[Sonic1954]

ronnnie wrote:
After read all the 148 pages, I bought a power pro 3500 and going to rewire it I had wiring schematic and like vary easy and notes from bob, but I want to put a 30amp plug and take out the 220 plug . so I have a extra wire I think it the blue maybe any help

ps good reading but a alot of posts

That is what I did to my Champion 3500. Got rid of the 220 and replaced it with a 30 ampre. I also had the blue wire left over. Look back a few posts and see how I did the Champion. Yours should rewire the same way. The blue wire is disconnected in the head on my Champion.

[ronnnie]

After read all the 148 pages, I bought a power pro 3500 and going to rewire it I had wiring schematic and like vary easy and notes from bob, but I want to put a 30amp plug and take out the 220 plug . so I have a extra wire I think it the blue maybe any help

ps good reading but a alot of posts

[fallsrider]

kneisl1 wrote:
Bob here is how I rewired my Power Pro 2200. Since the circuit looks to be the same as the 3500 Im thinking this would work for yours as well.

I checked the gauge of the wires on my 2200 and found them to be 16 gauge. According to the electricians as work, this should be good for the 15 continuous amps my 2200 puts out, given the short distance invovled.

I removed the sheet metal cover on the generator head and found the red brown blue and white wires where they come out of the windings. These four wires go into a connector with spade terminals which hooks up to the power cable going to the panel. I removed the terminals intact from the two halves of the connector. I bus wired together the female connectors of the red and brown wires coming from the windings and soldered them. Did the same for the blue and white wires. Then I plugged the male connectors of the blue and brown wires into the two connections I made. I taped the red and white wires and closed the generator head.
I then removed the blue wire from the 120/240 outlet and the red wires from the 120v outlet. I attached the blue wires where the red wire was.
Ive odered a 15 amp circuit breaker for the 3500 PP from Wen and when itgets here Ill replace the 10amp with that.
I would determine the gauge of the wiring in your panel and ask someone who knows whether it is capable of supporting the 25+ amps your generator is capable of. Good luck and tell us what happens!

I re-wired my generator today. After testing it, it appears everything works the way it is supposed to. Of course, now the underrated breaker comes into play. When I tried to run my 2 hp air compressor, the breaker tripped immediately, something it didn't do with the original wiring. It would just turn over slowly and never build up speed. I guess the 7.5 max. amps weren't enough to trip the breaker, but now the 15 amps are. That makes sense.

The volt meter now reads 120v.

My question now is...has anyone figured out an inexpensive way to add a 15-amp breaker instead of the 13 amp that comes with the 3,500? I would like to have the ability to run my air compressor if it will. If not, then I can live with that.

Also, considering I only removed one wire from the 220v. outlet, does it now have 120v., or is it dead?

Thanks.

Edit: because I inadvertently used the wrong forum name when registering, I had the forum change it. My former forum name was 'Ken7520'.

[BlackMax]

Final note on my Costco Nikota generator. I used the plug adaptor that I mentioned on an earlier post and took the genset and a propane bottle down to the fifth wheel. Fired it up and plugged it into the Alpenlite. The Surge Guard unit did its usual taste testing of the current that it's plugged into and after a few minutes allowed flow, just as it would for proper current 50 amp service. The appliances and air conditioning (15,000 btu Duotherm) ran fine. Sound level barely discernable inside the rig and no grunts or complaining during start ups. Shut it off and let it cool dawn and threw it back into the truck for the ride home where it'll be used for back up too. Thanks for all the input, would not have done this if I hadn't had the input.

[blazer8]

So has anyone had to change the breaker on the PowerPro 3500? Has it tripped after the rewire?

[Navychop]

Attached?

[fallsrider]

MrWizard wrote:
does it have a 'switch' for changing between 120/240

if not , I would like to see the schematic

No, it does not. Attached is the schematic. It seems like these generators still have the problem of not producing what they claim!

[lprice]

I noticed this morning that parts are now available at www.eliminatorusa.com for the Eliminator generators.