3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[smoken_joe]

Want to say thanks for the info on the Generators. I bought a Powerwise 3000 From Costco and am very happy. It is able to power both the AC and tire warmers for one bike. If just powering two tire warmers it does a better job than we got from the track side outlets. It is much stronger than the Colman 2250 that could barly power one set of tirewarmers and was insanly loud.

The only down side it that the generator seemed to get louder after adding the wheel kit.I will probibily end up covering the side in sheet metal with dampening material at some point though it is not exatly bad now.

[kc0dwx]

I picked up one of the Homier 4000w gensets a month or so back and got to use it for the first time this past weekend. I found that my AC wasn't dealing well with it and a 12V power supply for amatuer radio was not doing real well either(voltage would drop below 12V under load.

I checked the output on the genset and am only getting 109 at best with no load.

I called Homier and they suggested adjusting the governor to speed up the engine.

A couple of questions. Is this ok?? and does anyone know if these genertors use inverters to get the AC or what?

Thanks for the help.

[MrWizard]

UPdate: regarding my Rv ready and my A/C

because of health reasons, I have been unable to get back on the roof and dive into the situation

I attemped to remove the rusted screws of the cover on Last friday

after 6 trips and repeated aplications of penetrate I loosen all but one with using vise grips

i thought , i would get inot it the next day,

it didn't work out that way

since then i have not been in condition to finish the job

today was my first day where the majority of time was out of bed

the heat is bad 99 here today

so i am going to dive in as soon as possible

as soon as i can disconnect things and start tesing I'll let you know what i find out

[hiletroy]

Yes, I just need about 1100 watts to provide my needs. The 1800 watts is just fine for me, the noise and size/weight is more critical, along with the costs, compared to the Honda Eu2000i.

Thanks,
HT

[Po_Boy1]

hiletroy wrote:
I came across this line of generators and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them.

http://www.duropower.com/index.asp?FID=2&level=1

And specifically this one in particular?

http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=120&FID=1&level=0

At 66 dba, this seems reasonable, doesn't it? I need a 2000 watt self-contained, if possible, and it caught my attention.

Thanks,

HT

Looks interesting, you realize though that this is a 1800watt generator, not a 2000 watt model, right?

[VDOCAD]

TubaPete wrote:

elking wrote:
. . . It does appear that even when the trailer is plugged into my home outlet the compressor on the a/c unit does start kind of hard. . .. Anyone with any thoughts please chime in. Thanks!

You might consider getting a hard start capacitor for your A/C. There are many threads on this topic. I needed one to get my A/C started when using the generator.

TubaPete:
I asked this question before but it went unanswered... Where do you get those hard start capacitors and how hard is it to install?

[hiletroy]

I came across this line of generators and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them.

http://www.duropower.com/index.asp?FID=2&level=1

And specifically this one in particular?

http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=120&FID=1&level=0

At 66 dba, this seems reasonable, doesn't it? I need a 2000 watt self-contained, if possible, and it caught my attention.

Thanks,

HT

[professor95]

JohnJohn wrote:
I ended up buying the Champion http://www.cpeauto.com/de3500RV_gen.htm.

I was told this would would run a Dometic 13,500 BTU AC. I hope it does. By they way, it looks like the same engine as on the other Chinese generators. If it is, how are they able to make this one run to 3500 watts vs the others at 3000?

The nice thing about this one is that it's RV ready.

Again, the Champion should - unless there is something else causing an increased load that has not been identified. It will be interesting to hear your results.

The engine is "similar". They are copies or clones of the Honda GX-200 engine. On many models the Honda parts are interchangeable with the clones. On others, there are very slight variations that render the Chinese engine unable to accept some of the internal Honda parts, like pistons and rings.

I often remind my students that you can neither create nor destroy energy - you can only convert it to another (more useful?) form. I also emphasize that conversions of energy have an efficiency value, and in the process of conversion some energy will be given up to a product we are not interested in.

Using the standard of 1 HP = 746 watts, the engine on the generator would produce 4,849 watts if it were 100% efficient in conversion. But it isn't, so we get a lesser amount in the form of energy we want. The so called wasted energy is converted to heat in this case. We also have what are called eddy current losses that must be considered.

It all boils down to the design and efficiency of the generator head itself. Those that convert the largest percentage of chemical energy (gas & air) to mechanical energy (output at engine crankshaft shaft) to electrical energy (wattage) without exceeding operating temperature limits are usually better designed units - or perhaps just the more conseratively rated ......

[TubaPete]

elking wrote:
. . . It does appear that even when the trailer is plugged into my home outlet the compressor on the a/c unit does start kind of hard. . .. Anyone with any thoughts please chime in. Thanks!

You might consider getting a hard start capacitor for your A/C. There are many threads on this topic. I needed one to get my A/C started when using the generator.

[JohnJohn]

Professor95 wrote:
As to yor question, "Will it run a 13.5K BTU AC? It should. It has on dozens and dozens other campers. But, as we are currently seeing, not everyone is 100% successful.

According to the small print on infomercials, "Individual results may vary."

I ended up buying the Champion http://www.cpeauto.com/de3500RV_gen.htm.

I was told this would would run a Dometic 13,500 BTU AC. I hope it does. By they way, it looks like the same engine as on the other Chinese generators. If it is, how are they able to make this one run to 3500 watts vs the others at 3000?

The nice thing about this one is that it's RV ready.

[professor95]

Ken_Romer wrote:
Professor, where did you get the cover?

😉 Several messages back I wrote.....

Professor95 wrote:
BTW, the cover is $24.95 plus shipping. I think the part number is AWC46535 (better check to be sure - they have 3 different sizes). You can order directly from Champion at the 800 number on the sticker for your generator. The cover also fits other similar Chinese generators, like my ELM3000.

[Ken_Romer]

Professor, where did you get the cover?

[professor95]

csdavis wrote:
Great setup! I have a question though. Does the platform with the storage compartment and genset affect your trailer loading/handling very much? Also, did you buy the platform or build it yourself...parts list/materials?

Thanks

I want to keep this thread on the prefered topic, so I will be brief. Mostly, I want to emphasize what you asked as a possible problem when mounting a generator on the back of a trailer. The extra weight can easily upset handling. Always weigh your tongue to be sure you keep at least 10% of your total weight up front.

In my situation I have an trailer with a 11,000# max load rating. I pull with about 10,200#. Even with all the gear on the back carrier I still have a tongue weight of 1,400#. Thus, no affect on loading/handling.

The carrier slides into two 2" receivers welded to the frame rails so it is easily removed. It is made of 1-1/2 angle iron with VERANDA composite decking.

Send me your regular e-mail via private messages and I will shoot some photos to you.

[elking]

Professor95. I shut off all the breakers in the trailer except the main/ac breaker. I also thought maybe I was trying to start to many things at once. It does appear that even when the trailer is plugged into my home outlet the compressor on the a/c unit does start kind of hard. Maybe I should just run my a/c for a couple of days from my home outlet.(the a/c unit has less than 4 starts on it and probably a total of 15 min. run time total). Anyone with any thoughts please chime in. Thanks!

[csdavis]

professor95 wrote:
A little known secret is that Champion has as an accessory item a really nice, heavyweight, professionally sewn vinyl cover for the 3500W generators.

I have one and really like it a lot better than the Bar-B-Q grill cover I previously used.




The biggest problem I had with the cover was due to the design of the generator, it would pool rain water on the top. I concluded something was needed to support the center of the cover. While a simple piece of plywood would work, I wanted something that would not slip around while in transit. I used 1/4" plywood, rounded the edges.....



...and attached cleats to the underside that locked it onto the pipe framework. I finished it off with polyurathane varnish. Works Great!



Now the cover does not sag and collect water when it is placed on the generator.

BTW, the cover is $24.95 plus shipping. I think the part number is AWC46535 (better check to be sure - they have 3 different sizes). You can order directly from Champion at the 800 number on the sticker for your generator. The cover also fits other similar Chinese generators, like my ELM3000.

Great setup! I have a question though. Does the platform with the storage compartment and genset affect your trailer loading/handling very much? Also, did you buy the platform or build it yourself...parts list/materials?

Thanks