3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

UglyDwarf wrote:
It doesn't wait to bog down when I try to start the AC, it does it when I just plug it in.

Very interesting. Do you have an electric heating element in your water heater? If so, could it possibly be on?

Obviously, there is a parasitic load in the trailer we are overlooking. Do you by chance have access to an "Amp Clamp". This is an inductive amp meter that just clamps around one of the two wires supplying power to the camper.

Also, the link you provided for the schematic doesn't work for us. Please try again.

[MrWizard]

it seems to me somebody posted a power pro schematic once before

but i don't remember what page it's on

I finally found it

http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15131645/gotomsg/15996737.cfm#1599...

scroll down this page to the schematic

first is the unmodified standard wiring

the next post has the schematic showing the modifcation for full power at 120 from the twist lock OR the duplex out let

this may OR mayNOT be an exact match to your current version of the power pro

you should compare your drawing to this one from last year ( standard NOT moded ) and let us know if they are the same

if they are then the moded drawing contains the changes you need to make to yours

[MrWizard]

http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=84835225111.63419125111.1152057286793&page=1&so...

the pictures don't show, it comes up as a log in page for kodak

you have to be a member

[Ugly_Dwarf]

Professor,

Thank you for the quick response. I'm not sure how to attach a picture of the schematic, but I've posted a couple different angles here ---> http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=84835225111.63419125111.1152057286793&page=1&sort_order=0&navfolderid=2006&folderid=0&ownerid=84835225111 It looks like they display rather small, but I'd be happy to email the full size files if you can PM me with your address.

I will try load test the generator with the saw tomorrow (possibly this evening). However, my question to that end is why would the generator start to strain with no apparent load from the trailer (I even tried it with all the breakers in the trailer thrown to "off")? It doesn't wait to bog down when I try to start the AC, it does it when I just plug it in.

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to electrical, so forgive me if the answer is obvious.

[professor95]

UglyDwarf wrote:
While I'm new a new member, I've been reading through this post for a little while now, leading me to buy a PowerWise 3000 watt generator from Costco on Friday.

I fired it up (with the 120/240 switch in the 120 position) and it ran fine, but when I attempted to plug the RV plug from my TT (via a plug adaptor similar to this ===> http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-power-cords/trailer-plug.htm ) into one of the 120 (20amp / 60hz) outlets the engine began stuttering as if under a very heavy load and the voltmeter on the generators pannel droped to zero. At that point, no power was going to the trailer.

I was unable to find anything (besides the battery charger, with a fully charged battery) that should have been putting a load on the system. I verified the lights, AC, refridgerator, stereo, etc... were off.
....
Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong? I'm hoping this is operator error and a quick fix. Perhaps one of the other PowerWise users here encountered the same problem? My searching today has yet to yeild a solution to my problem (not that one answer isn't posted, but I couldn't find it).

The PowerWise unit is built by JiangDong. All of the JD units with a 120/240 switch I have encountered provide full power to the duplex outlet when in the 120 volt position. Other PowerWise owners have indicated that they were successful in running their AC.

Your adapter also looks OK and since you have tested it with the shore power outlet, we can assume it is OK. Also, if your AC starts and runs from a 100' extension cord we can assume that the AC is not drawing excessive start current - the voltage drop through the extension cord would be significant if that was the problem.

This brings us back to the generator itself. If you can scan and post an electrical shematic of your generator it would be helpful.

To conduct some simple tests to determine where the problem might be, start the generator and plug in a 120 volt 1,500 watt electric heater set to full power (resistive load). Then add another resistive load like a second heater with a 500, 1000, 1500 watt selector. A hair dryer will also provide similar loads.

Does the generator continue to run when both heaters are on high? If not, at what point does it trip the breaker or overload? If it will not maintain this resistive load to at least 2,500 total watts, you have a generator problem.

Another test can be done with your power saw. Rather than just starting it, can you rip a piece of oak (try a dull blade - even wet wood to get max load) without shutting down the generator or tripping a breaker? Your generator should allow you to make the rip. If it doesn't, you have a generator problem.

If you passed the above test, the start current on your AC is probably too high for the generator and you might consider a hard start capacitor for the AC. These kits vary by AC brand, compressor design and age.

It is possible that your generator is not wired for full power at 120 volts - thou' I would be surprised if it was not from your specs. The electrical diagram will tell us what to expect.

[Ugly_Dwarf]

While I'm new a new member, I've been reading through this post for a little while now, leading me to buy a PowerWise 3000 watt generator from Costco on Friday.

I fired it up (with the 120/240 switch in the 120 position) and it ran fine, but when I attempted to plug the RV plug from my TT (via a plug adaptor similar to this ===> http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-power-cords/trailer-plug.htm ) into one of the 120 (20amp / 60hz) outlets the engine began stuttering as if under a very heavy load and the voltmeter on the generators pannel droped to zero. At that point, no power was going to the trailer.

I was unable to find anything (besides the battery charger, with a fully charged battery) that should have been putting a load on the system. I verified the lights, AC, refridgerator, stereo, etc... were off.

The generator will power my 13 amp circular saw with no problem and the RV plug adaptor works fine to power the AC, refridgerator, etc... when plugged into an household outlet through a 100' extension cord.

Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong? I'm hoping this is operator error and a quick fix. Perhaps one of the other PowerWise users here encountered the same problem? My searching today has yet to yeild a solution to my problem (not that one answer isn't posted, but I couldn't find it).

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Jim-Linda]

'preciate the poop cat, thanks.

Jim

[catadjuster]

Measurements are just under 18" tall and the same from the panel back and 23" across the front.

[Jim-Linda]

Anyone have the dimensions of the Champion, especially the height?

Jim

[professor95]

jdev wrote:
HELP! I need the step by step info. on how to make a 3500 PowerPro give you 3000 Watts from one outlet via the 220 one or the 120 one Please let me know what I need to get and do!!!!

Unless you have an older model PowerPro, it is wired to do what you want as delivered. Rewiring details for older models have been posted several times further back in the thread. I know the amount of material compiled here has become overwhelming and finding needed info is time consuming. But, please look back to see what you can find. If that fails to give you your needed answers, send me an e-mail via the private messages feature and I will try to walk you through the proceedure.

[professor95]

dash8wrench wrote:
Well, I haven't seen this one listed yet, or I might have over looked it. We stopped into Big Lots in Greensboro, NC this afternoon returning from the antique farm show in Denton, NC. While walking around I noticed this unit. I immediately took it down from the shelf and opened it up to see if it was comparable to the others being discussed. It looked to be the same and since I didn't want to pay shipping from partsamerica.com, well, it just followed me home. Price was $288. Manual was vague on choke operation and it didn't start on first or second pull, so I set the choke lever in oposite direction and it started with a nice mellow sound. I ran around to the back of the trailer and brought out the power cord and 15 amp adapter. Plugged it up and hit the AC. Engine expressed it's acquisition of a load with a bit louder rumble but it didn't hiccup one bit. Sure could have used it the past 2 nights when the temps didn't seem to drop below 80 all night. Engine is noticeably less noisy than the 1850 watt Coleman we had used for the weekend.

To add to MrWizard's comment.....

I made a brief posting on this unit several weeks back. From all identifing marks (stampings, castings, etc.) it appears to be a unit made by Jiang Dong. Other units made by JD have proved to be pretty good. I agree with MrWizard, full power at 110 volts to one outlet is there.

The only problem is that the voltage regulator is rather "primitive" when compared to the yellow painted cousin currently available. I have compared outputs of both and the distortion on the yellow one is considerably lower - which is why my JD unit runs the microwave in my camper at double speed.

Other than that - you should find that it will run all other appliances in your RV just fine - including TV, laptop, and AC.

We just got back from a five night trip. It was nice to get out. We did not need the generator since we had a 50 amp hookup. It was 99 in the shade when we got home, so I fired up the generator to cool the camper down with the AC while we unloaded and did the post trip clean-up inside. It was nice having that option available since my circuit capacity and power cord rating to the camper from the house will not run the AC (upgrade on my long list of around-toits).

[Ken_Romer]

StaJs wrote:

Tonka Truck wrote:
Good Grief, that one may have a mech. problem causing noise. My new Champion C46540 is slightly louder than my Nikota I've used for several years. Most of that comes from a rat-a-tat-tat from the pull starter area.

Your right!

My Champion C46540 is now quiet! This is what I found. The cooling fan on these engines are not cast with the flywheel as found on older engines but is a separate piece of plastic held only by the flywheel/starter cup nut. This apparently causes some vibration/oscillation with the fan while running. Some may be worse than others as mine was very loud.

The cure?
I removed the start recoil (10mm x 3)
than the housing (10mm x 4). Next the flywheel nut (19mm x 1).
The plastic flywheel will fall off, I cleaned the flywheel surface and backside of the fan to remove any grease or oil than ran a bead of silicone around the center hole and around the outside of the flywheel leaving a gap for the ignition magnet. Put the whole thing back together and let it set for 24 hours. (well, 19 hours - I couldn't wait to hear the results!).

QUIET! Not that much louder than my Honda 1000 inverter unit!
And to think I almost sold it at work last night!

Now for the test. Will it hold together? I think so. Did I void the warranty? At this point I don't care. I'm just so happy it is as quiet as everyone elses!

Happy boondocking!

Another vote for this simple modification. Did it a few days ago and noticibly quieter. I noticed some bare metal were the fan had obviously been vibrating against. The key is to add a pliable seal under the outside lip and the inside lip to keep it from smaking. Kind of like a spacer.
Took about 20 minutes to do.

[MrWizard]

the windings are show in parallel with only one CB

yes, it should be full power 120 volts

looks a lot like other generators in this series

you could mount an RV receptical in/on the panel and not need any adapter-plugs and have less heating in the recp

[Gulfcoast]

Hey Professor.......

Please tell us if our Big Lot gens (in the wiring diagram above) are wired to put out full voltage to one outlet.

THANKS

[Gulfcoast]

Hey dash...

I bought the same EXACT generator a couple of months ago from Big Lots for the same price, and I am very well pleased in every way.

I did note that my CHOKE sticker was backwards. I flipped the chock the way I thought it should be to choke it, and it fired up on the first pull.

Good luck friend