3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

scottz wrote:
The manual states not to run high octane gas. This is a problem for me as I only keep high-octane non-oxygenated gas on-hand.

While many folks want to add octane boosters like Xylene and Toluene to gas, you can also effectively reduce the octane (which also decreases the resistance to detonation) by adding diesel fuel or kerosene to the gas. Their octane ratings are around 50. 10% should bring you back to the needed lower octane when using the fuel you have in storage.

Another trick is to add Isopropyl Alcohol, preferably the 91% variety (rubbing alcohol). Unlike ethanol, it is an octane reducer (don’t ask me why, I am not a chemist).

What worries me more in these little engines is the new 10% ethanol mix being used in my area. My past experience with such mixtures in small gas engines and 2 cycle outboard motors has been dismal. Thinks like swollen seals, dissolved diaphragms and seemingly unexplained fuel leaks were prevalent with earlier ethanol “enhanced” fuels.

Right now, I drive out of my county into an adjacent county that is not required to have ethanol and oxygenated fuel at the pump and fill my portable tanks for the boat motor and small engines.

[subcamper]

scottz wrote:
.

The manual states not to run high octane gas. This is a problem for me as I only keep high-octane non-oxygenated gas on-hand. Does anyone know why they recomend not using high-octane gas? I can only assume it is to keep temperatures down.


-Scott

This is a common warning in small engines. I had a friend buy a new lawnmower, it wouldn't start, he returned it and got another one. Same thing, it wouldn't start. He called me to see if I could figure out what he was doing wrong. He was using high-octane gas in it. After putting in regular-grade gas, it started and ran fine.

High-octane gas takes a higher temperature to ignite, hence its resistance to detonation. Small air-cooled engines typically have a low compression ratio which results in low combustion chamber temperatures, making it hard to ignite high-octane fuel.

Steve

[flamingoland]

hi mr wizard

if i had to add it up, i'd say it ran about 10-12 hours total for the weekend (average time on from 7-10 pm each night (3 nights), and a couple of hours here and there during the day/afternoon), if only to charge the battery, and 75-80% of that time, running the A/C and the TV/DVD

last year, i had borrowed a dinky 2000 gen just to keep the battery charged, didn't even try to run the A/C, but did run the TV/DVD player for the kids (i have one that hates the races and this was my bribe to get him to come and not whine so much), with the heat being well over 90 all weekend, i was glad i had the bigger unit (plus it was mine) so that i had the option of running the A/C, i'm not a heat person (bleah, you guys in the south can keep it!), and with the humidity, plus 50,000 some odd people camping at NHIS and no breeze, it gets unbearable pretty quickly (this is my 8th year at NHIS)

i also don't tend to use the microwave and will be looking to replace it with the convection/micro combo at some point (no oven in my unit and i'd rather bake than nuke)

[professor95]

cdre wrote:
am buying a 33’ Fleetwood Wilderness this weekend. First upgrade will most likely be a PD9160 and 3 new Group 24 batteries (if I can fit them). I will be putting this trailer on my off-grid property in Belize (Central America). I plan on using one of the aforementioned Chinese generators to charge my batteries for a few hours every couple of days (hopefully the upgraded converter will keep the charging time down to a minimum).

My question is, will a 3000w generator be able to handle a 60amp charger along with a couple of other relatively small loads (no a/c)? Will I be able to really take full advantage of this converter’s capabilities with my relatively light generator and (presumably) 30 amp power cord?

Your 60 amp charger will draw between 720 and 960 watts at 120 volts under full load. This leaves you with 2,000 watts for your light 120 volt loads.

Concerning your question on the converter's capabilities, the 30 amp power cord and a 3,000 watt generator - it is really a non-issue for what you want to accomplish. These items are more than adequate.

As a suggestion, consider a single 8D deep cycle battery over the triplet group 24's. I have an 8D on my Prowler. They are huge, but one will fit in the space provided for the battery if the carrier is reworked.

Wal-Mart also carries a group 29 MAXX deep cycle battery that is slightly taller than a group 27. I know two of these will fit on the front as well. Personally, I am not too impressed with the long term lifespan of the group 24 batteries I have used in the past.

As far as your choice of generators, I would suggest considering the Champion RV model we have discussed on the forum. Being in Belize you might have problems locating service parts for "other" Chinese brands. One call to Champion tech support (24/7) would get you parts/help on all their models.

If for some reason you want something more powerful than 3,000 watts, Champion also has larger Chinese manufactured units available.

[MrWizard]

YES

i have WFCO 55 amp

thats 60 amps at 14+ volts , so that's less than 1000watts output power into the batteries

i'm not sure what the AC input wattage-amps is, but all the modern smart charger-converters use switching technology and are pretty effiecent

I have no trouble running the A/C and the converter at the same time

[cdre]

First, I want to say how helpful this forum and this topic have been. An amazing amount of valuable info.

I am buying a 33’ Fleetwood Wilderness this weekend. First upgrade will most likely be a PD9160 and 3 new Group 24 batteries (if I can fit them). I will be putting this trailer on my off-grid property in Belize (Central America). I plan on using one of the aforementioned Chinese generators to charge my batteries for a few hours every couple of days (hopefully the upgraded converter will keep the charging time down to a minimum).

My question is, will a 3000w generator be able to handle a 60amp charger along with a couple of other relatively small loads (no a/c)? Will I be able to really take full advantage of this converter’s capabilities with my relatively light generator and (presumably) 30 amp power cord?

[MrWizard]

flamigoland

the proforce is rated at less power than my RV ready and this will give better-longer hrs per gallon

what were your total hrs of run time 10, 12,15 ?

whatever the hrs per gallon

it looks like you hit the 'sweet spot' and got the correct genny for your use,

it carried your A/C and did really well in the gas dept

all of us would like to do so well

[MrWizard]

Also, did anyone notice the warrenty registration "postcard" instructions said to include a copy of the sales receipt.

yes

I copied the address on to a large envelope

copied the reciept and filled out the reg postcard and put everything in the envelope

they really should included a pre-address envelope and form, instead of a post card, since they want a copy of the reciept

[Tonka_Truck]

Professor 95, Ugly Dwarf wrote: He was having problems with the power output. What was the outcome, bad circuit in his trailer?

I drilled a hole through a black iron round rebar stake and bolted (connected) a heavy guage wire to it for a ground stake. It's about an inch around and a couple of feet long. The wire is long enough to ground when in the pick-up bed also.

Question, on the xxx40 with the Voltage gage, is it accurate enough to tell if the Champion is putting out the right voltage?

Thanks,

[toprudder]

dogzpaws wrote:
I'll be at 7,000 feet this weekend and will try it again.

At 7000 ft elevation, you can expect the engine power to drop by about 20-25%. Also, the heat transfer of air drops as well (less dense) though I'm not sure by how much. This will affect how much the air blowing through the generator and engine will cool it.

Bob R.

[scottz]

Power went out this weekend and I had some deck work to do. So I broke down and went to Checker to pickup a C45540 as I have been monitoring this thread for a while.

Price was $299 w/coupon, they only had the floor model left, so I bought that for $279+tax. The genset ran fine in 95F heat and supplied power for saws/drills and refridgerator/freezer.

The manual states not to run high octane gas. This is a problem for me as I only keep high-octane non-oxygenated gas on-hand. Does anyone know why they recomend not using high-octane gas? I can only assume it is to keep temperatures down.

Also, did anyone notice the warrenty registration "postcard" instructions said to include a copy of the sales receipt.

-Scott

[scottz]

Mr. Tommy wrote:
Yeah, I'm not impressed with how you're supposed to add oil. It's easy to overfill, and the 'dipstick' is at such a horizontal angle that one side reads full and the other darned near empty.

The manual should clear this up for you.

-Scott

[dogzpaws]

Well, I hooked up my new Champion to my trailer and it ran everything. Noticed the slight draw on the gen when I turned on the AC but it took it fine. Ran MW and AC simultaneously with several lights and the radio. All worked perfectly at El 1,500 feet. I'll be at 7,000 feet this weekend and will try it again.

I played a little with sound attenuation. I placed some 1/8" hardboard on three sides and the top (similar to Professor95's photos) and it took a decent bite out of the noise. No sound meter to take measurements though. I'll try some thin insulation on the inside of the hardboard next. So far so good.

[flamingoland]

the gauge was on E when i brought it there, may have had a little gas, but not much, no idea what the tank holds, instructions are not in English, put gas in it when i got there friday from the 1.5 gallon gas can, and again on sunday, it was chained and locked the entire time, if someone's playing tricks, they had my lock combination!!
and given the traffic, there was no way i was going out to just buy more gas for it....figured when it gave out, it gave out, but it didn't (could hear it sloshing in the tank when i loaded it back up into the camper, but not much left in it, and 1.5 gallon fill can is empty)

it was a pep boys special, the proforce 3150 (the yellow generator), if this is good 'mileage' or whatever you call it, then i'm happy, it started easily and ran well for the weekend anyway, so it's good to know i bought a decent unit (being a girl and all 😉 and living near the coast with hurricane season now under way)

so thank you one and all for your advice, i read this forum from the start and learned a lot, although i doubt i'd try any of the mods (i personally wish it were quieter, just because everyone around me at NASCAR was terribly noisy doesn't mean i want to be as well)

[professor95]

Mr. Tommy wrote:
Yeah, I'm not impressed with how you're supposed to add oil. It's easy to overfill, and the 'dipstick' is at such a horizontal angle that one side reads full and the other darned near empty.

We can blame this on Honda! They were the original designers of the system - the Chinese generator manufacturers have built their engines around the design of the original Honda GX-200.

While overfilling is possible, if you leave the cap off a minute or two after adding oil any excess will gradually come back out the fill hole. I usually do this on all of my one lungers (Briggs, Honda, etc.) when I fill or change oil.

Incidentally, IMHO the dipstick is pretty much useless as a fill level device. My long term understanding is to add oil until it is level with the fill port, not at some mark on a plastic stick. I've used my "little finger" as a dipstick for at least 50 years. I crook my finger and stick it in the oil fill hole, if I don't get oil on the tip of my little finger by the time my first knuckle is even with the top of the fill hole, it is time to add oil! BTW, you can do this when the oil/engine is hot - but it doesn't feel too good.