3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Accurate]

dash8wrench wrote:
Congrats to everyone that is getting on the bandwagon.

As for sound attenuation, I'm going to try some of the egg crate foam lining a box made of bathroom surround paneling. I figure the paneling should be moderately water resistant and the egg crate is the closest thing I can think of that's readily available that would replicate the wall surfaces of an anechoic (sp?) room. I'm going to put a sheet metal shroud around the muffler and duct air from a muffin fan through it to purge what is probably the greatest source of radiant heat in the enclosure.

I'm mounting it on the rear of my 5er on an aluminum cargo carrier from HF. I narrowed the carrier down so that the spare tire will still mount on the back as well. It was as simple as drilling out a few pop rivets, cutting all the cross bars and then reriveting it back together. I also plan to add some stainless gusstes in a couple of locations in order to lock down the generator since they seem to be a hot commodity for theft at race tracks these days. That and a lock through the hitch reciever pin for the carrier should secure it from all but the most determined thieves. I'll take pictures tomorrow and post them. I will leave the bottom of the carrier open and have the enclosure top hinged so that it can be opened a bit to allow for convective flow across the generator/engine and to prevent the build up of gasoline fumes.

Question Professor, when you return. As stated I'm planning on a muffin fan to flow air across the exhaust. I'm thinking I should put a small battery in the compartment for the fan and run it off the 12v side of the generator. The battery should act as an electrical accumulator (capacitor?) to prevent spikes from toasting the fan.

I have the Big Lots generator and plan to add a 30 amp recepticle to it was well. Probably will route the wiring to the outside of the enclosure so I only have to access the generator for starting.

______________________________________________________________________
I think a steady 10 Amps on any battery only running a muffin fan will cook the battery pretty fast.
I'd just run it directly off the 12v. terminals. It'll only use the current it needs.

KenS

[dash8wrench]

Congrats to everyone that is getting on the bandwagon.

As for sound attenuation, I'm going to try some of the egg crate foam lining a box made of bathroom surround paneling. I figure the paneling should be moderately water resistant and the egg crate is the closest thing I can think of that's readily available that would replicate the wall surfaces of an anechoic (sp?) room. I'm going to put a sheet metal shroud around the muffler and duct air from a muffin fan through it to purge what is probably the greatest source of radiant heat in the enclosure.

I'm mounting it on the rear of my 5er on an aluminum cargo carrier from HF. I narrowed the carrier down so that the spare tire will still mount on the back as well. It was as simple as drilling out a few pop rivets, cutting all the cross bars and then reriveting it back together. I also plan to add some stainless gusstes in a couple of locations in order to lock down the generator since they seem to be a hot commodity for theft at race tracks these days. That and a lock through the hitch reciever pin for the carrier should secure it from all but the most determined thieves. I'll take pictures tomorrow and post them. I will leave the bottom of the carrier open and have the enclosure top hinged so that it can be opened a bit to allow for convective flow across the generator/engine and to prevent the build up of gasoline fumes.

Question Professor, when you return. As stated I'm planning on a muffin fan to flow air across the exhaust. I'm thinking I should put a small battery in the compartment for the fan and run it off the 12v side of the generator. The battery should act as an electrical accumulator (capacitor?) to prevent spikes from toasting the fan.

I have the Big Lots generator and plan to add a 30 amp recepticle to it was well. Probably will route the wiring to the outside of the enclosure so I only have to access the generator for starting.

[Gene-C]

I got the Champion C46540 today from Parts America. Two days after ordering,it was dropped at my door. Unpacked it and added gas and oil as per instructions. Wife pulled it twice and it started. After a short break in run I hooked a 1500 watt heater to it and it didn't hardly blink. I must say it is a little loud but I did own a Honda EU3000 and I guess I got spoiled. I sold the Honda with the older trailer since it was mounted very nicely on the back (" I did raise the price") I didn't think I would need a gen anymore.
It was too hot out to play with it more ( I live near ST. Louis )but will hook it to the trailer tomorrow and try the A/C. Next project will be an enclosure for sound. Anyone with ideas please pass them on to us new-be's

Gene-C

[jimhumphries]

A fantastic thread!

Yet another candidate 3/3.5KW unit is the Gentron 3500 Pro RV with electric start. Made by JD (their model JD3500e) this one, like the Champion, has the 30A RV socket built in. Seems to run everything OK. Noise rating is 67 dbA. Because I'm stationary, I enclosed the generator in a low, plastic, insulated garden shed with push-pull blowers and exhaust ported to the outside (temperature rise inside is modest). Very Honda-like if you're going to sit still and are willing to go to this trouble.

I bought mine on the net with free shipping from generatordepot.us for $419. Now they seem to be out of them until sometime in August but there are other Internet sources.

I was going to go with the Champion for $299 at Kragens but I wanted electric start.

Regards,

Jim

[Harrygoodwrench]

🙂 Greetings all,
I have been lurking as I have a love for camping but however am not an RVer. I do have a camp cabin located up in the Adirondack mountains in Upstate NY.
I also purchased a 3500 Watt Pro Source gen set from Big Lots. Its starts so easy my wife can pull start it without effort. I showed it to 2 other friends and they were so impressed they when out immediately and got one before they sold out. Sure the Big Lots model only has two 120 outlets but for 284 dollars its a great deal. as far as noise? its so much quieter than my Homeylite that I use at my house for back-up.
As far as the fuel consumption ratings. I can't believe how long these things run on a tank. So far after about 25 hours run time I'm satisified.
Signing off, Harry G, going camping again this weekend with electric. LOL

[Gulfcoast]

Hey KSSteve...

I bought the same 3500-watt gen at Big Lots several weeks ago.

I am very pleased with it in every way.

Best $288.00 that I ever spent!

[KSSteve]

I recently bought one of the 3000 watt generators from Big Lots for $288. It says on it the noise rating is 70 db, and it appears to have a Chinese copy of a Honda engine.

I just got back from a two week camping trip, and I'm very pleased with the generator. It starts on the first pull, every time, and runs very smoothly. It will easily run the A.C. or microwave on my camper, although because of the wiring on my camper, I can't try both at the same time. On this trip I mostly just used it about an hour a day to charge the batteries.

So far as noise, I would describe it as much quieter than just a "contractor generator," although it is certainly louder than one of the Honda EU series. To dampen the noise some, I set a thin sleeping pad on edge a couple feet away, sort of curled around it. It made a noticeable difference.

The generator has two 120 electric plugs, both controlled by the same circuit breaker.

It was a real deal at $288, IMHO.

[cloudswrest]

professor95 wrote:

cloudswrest wrote:
One thing I noticed, and it is not shown in the schematic, is the bottom terminal of the top winding (white wire) is wired to chassis ground in the generator (not in the switch panel.) So neutral on the 120V outlets is shorted to chassis GND.

I hope this is not true and you are looking at a wire for the 12 volt winding or the regulator control winding. Have you made some resistance measurments with an ohm meter to be sure? If it is true, it should be disconnected and allowed to float. Only the green or green/yellow wire should be attached to the chassi. Having the white wire (AKA neutral) on the chassi is a dangerous situation.

Is true. Measured with an ohmmeter as well as saw it visually. For the 120V outlet the GND terminal measures shorted to the neutral terminal. When the generator is on the meter measures 120VAC from Hot to GND (and chassis). I plan to get out there and rewire it when the weather cools off, although the cheesy schematic doesn't show the field cicuitry, only the armature circuit, so I don't yet know if the field circuit relies on the neutral to chassis connection.

Also something that IS shown on the schematic is the "neutral" contact of the 240V twistlock connector is left unconnected. I found this a minor irritation.

I have seen this on 3 prong twist lock outlets (JD built ELM 3000 for example), but not on 4 prong L14-20 or L14-30 outlets. Maybe one of the assemblers goofed and put the white wire that should attach the 220 center tap to the outlet onto the chassi? Wild guess on my part. Anyway, the neutral is not needed on "straight" 220, only when you use an appliance like a stove or dryer that has both 110 and 220 elements. It does come in handy when pulling a 110 leg from the twistlock outlet. In fact, without the neutral leg, you cannot get 110 out of the twist lock outlet - unless some dummy runs the neutral to the chassi ground along with the grounding conductor :E

I don't think it's an assembler goof because the contact is shown floating in the schematic. Of course there is 120 to chassis GND 🙂

Cloudswrest

[professor95]

Epenny wrote:
There is a Nema L14-30R outlet on the unit, but we thought it is for 240 VAC, since it is labeled thus. Could we be mistaken? The unit also has (2) 120 VAC duplex outlets, along with a 12 VDC outlet.

I'm calling my FIL this morning and ask him to find the owners manual for the genset, and check what voltage the L14-30R outlet is supposed to be.

Thanks.

On edit: I believe he has the late model C46535 genset.

Your FIL's genset has two independent 120 volt outlets. One is fused at 20 amps, the other at 15 amps. Try switching the cord for the RV between outlets before you do anything (you want to be plugged into the 20 amp fused outlet). If the breaker still trips with his RV and air conditioner, you will need to change the generator from series to parallel windings (detal has been previously posted on this forum). Send me a an e-mail if you need help on the details.

Forget the NMEA 14-30 outlet. It was designed for 220 volt output and is no value to you on an RV.

Headed for Lake Anna this afternoon with the camper and boat. I will have no Internet connection for the next 5 days. If you need further info from me, It will be Monday before I can get back to you.

[thw420]

I have been reading this thread for quite some time and have learned a lot about these chinese gensets. After researching for a while I finally purchased a C46540. I wanted the Champion, but live in the south (Atlanta) and couldn't get one at Advanced Auto Parts. Anyhow, I got a decent deal I believe. There is currently a Parts America 15% off coupon code of MLBD which really helped make the $63 shipping not look so bad. Here's more info:

Parts America Website
Part #: C46540
15% off Coupon Code: MLBD (expires July 31, 2006)


Total Cost:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part # Description QTY Price
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPEC46540 C46540 4000W GENERATOR 1 $329
========================================================================
Subtotal $ 329.00
Discount -$ 49.35
Tax $ 0.00
Shipping and Handling $ 63.94
Total Order Amount $ 343.59



I know it's not as cheap as some others have been getting them at their local stores, but for a quality generator shipped to my doorstep I think $344 isn't too bad.

[joems]

Just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to these 240+ pages. I ordered the champion from partsamerica.com, since the partsamerica in my part of the country does not carry them. There is a 15% off coupon found doing a simple google search. It helped with the $60 shipping cost.
Thanks again!
Joe

[EPenney]

Professor & MrWizard,

The TT is a 2006 Sportsmaster by ExtremeRV. This was his first outing with the TT. He was drycamping on battery & propane.

There is a Nema L14-30R outlet on the unit, but we thought it is for 240 VAC, since it is labeled thus. Could we be mistaken? The unit also has (2) 120 VAC duplex outlets, along with a 12 VDC outlet.

I'm calling my FIL this morning and ask him to find the owners manual for the genset, and check what voltage the L14-30R outlet is supposed to be.

Thanks.

On edit: I believe he has the late model C46535 genset.

[professor95]

dash8wrench & MrWizard wrote:


Here's a thought to chew on...

With the low oil shut off most of these units have and some of us considering enclosures, what are your thoughts about using an appropriately rated Klixon temp switch for thermal protection for the generator head in the shut down circuit? Just allow for the switch to be normally open and then closed to ground when in an overtemp situation.


nice idea ( if you can find one )

i know all the ones I see in the surplus catalogs are normally closed and open at temp

seems they all come from coffee makers or other heating devices

Why not pop a 7404 Hex Inverter onto a small perf board after the NC device? Cheap. Easy to build. Will allow a NC device to behave like a NO device. If you need a circuit, I can give you one.

BTW - I ran some more temperature test last week. Outside temperature was 92 degrees F. Generator was operating with a 2,200 watt load. Temp at the head (closest to the engine) was 174 degrees F. In the center of the genny the temp was 136 degrees F. This is a nice operating range.

Also, Harbor Freight has the non-contact infrared thermometer on sale for $39.95 (was $79.95 regular, the dropped to $59.95). This is a nice device for any RVer to have - check for hot brake drums (dragging brake shoes), hot wheel bearings (imminent failure), oven temps (my temp dial is a joke), water heater temp (did the wife use it all with her shower?), outside grill temps (don't want to burn the roast), generator temps, etc. Just point and shoot. I use mine frequently.

[dash8wrench]

Following up on thermal safety switch for an enclosed generator:

Link to one surplus vendor

The switch "(SWH) 354-103" on the above page looks like it might do the trick. If I remember the temps the professor mentioned 190 comes to mind. This one is adjustable down to 180 which would allow for a margin of safety.

[professor95]

Epenny wrote:
Just got back from 7 days camping at 6,700'. My FIL's 3500w Champion would not run his 13.5k AC. The genset would trip every time the AC was turned on.

So the questions are:
1) Is the Champion delivering full rated amps from a single plug?

2) Should we suspect the AC unit as causing the problem?

3) Can anyone help me get out of hot water with DW, since I told my FIL to buy the Champion?

Thanks.

Did your FIL buy the RV ready model or the standard model? If, by chance, he bought the standard model (no 30 amp TT outlet) then he will need to make some wiring changes inside the end cap of the generator to get full power to a single outlet.

Now, if he has the RV model, full power should be available to the 30 amp TT outlet with no other mods.

If you go back a couple of weeks you will find a posting I made on how to test the generator to see if it is performing properly or if there is a problem with overcurrent in the AC or TT circuit.

Also, pay attention to the advice given by Mr Wizard - he had a similar problem he resolved and knows what he is talking about.

If this does not resolve the issues, have your FIL call Mr. Paul Cole at the number listed on the generator. If the problem is with the generator, he will resolve the problem - period!