3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Oldfordman]

FJ40Smurf wrote:


I am only interested in the 240V 30A output side for a backfeed and won't use the duplex side.

Remember, you will not have 30 Amps available at 120V. The rated output of this generator is 3250 Watts so you will only have 13.5 amps available on each bus if you backfeed through an outlet like the one for the dryer. This will be enough for a furnace on one leg, but nothing else on the same leg. It will be important for you to "map your panel" so you know what loads you will be able to have on at the same time and which "leg" they are fed from. The BEST way is to not "backfeed" but to add a transfer switch/panel. It will keep you from damaging things and placing the line repairmen at risk from power that might get backfed into the grid. In most, if not all areas, it is illegal to backfeed without using a transfer switch.

Good Luck.

[MrWizard]

FWIW complete tractor supply is now selling champion generators, abate for more money than kragen auto/shucks auto

costco has a great return policy, becareful with your backfeed,

do more than just flip off the service breakers, either put in a transfer switch OR pull the meter from the socket ( service panel )

the life you save will belong to someone else ( power company lineman )

[FJ40Smurf]

Oldfordman wrote:
You are looking at a generator that is MUCH louder than the Champion, will most likely NOT give the full output to a single outlet (It will be split among the duplex outlets or will give 1/2 output per leg of the 240v plug to common), and if it fails you won't have access to the excellent Customer Service that Champion has provided.

If you are looking to use this with an RV, the 30 amp plug (with a full 29.2 amps available @120 volts) is sure nice to have. Keeps one from having to rewire or use multiple extension cords.

As for Costco's warranty, that's all it is. There's no Service available. You can bring the genset back but there is a good chance they won't have a replacement as they are a "batch buyer".

Since there is a remote chance you may end up with a Champion in the end, why not start with one that does everyting an RV'er needs and a lot quieter. 68 dba (Champion) vs 74 dba (Hangzhou/Alton).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is full of choices. I choose to have fun!

Well, I went ahead and purchsed the Alton generator last night. Let me clarify my use of this genset. This will not be used with a RV. It will only be used as home emergency backup power. I am only interested in the 240V 30A output side for a backfeed and won't use the duplex side. I can't see how they could have screwed up that wiring but I will check the output. I am going to run the unit in an outbuilding and fabricate an exhaust system to exit outside. This should keep it plenty quiet. The main reason I choose this unit is I am unable to purchase the Champion in my area and did not want to pay for shipping. I have had very good luck with Costco stuff, and when I don't they take it back. I am going to put some hours on this thing and I figure if it is going to break it will happen early. Once I get a chance to unbox it and set it up I will post.

[Oldfordman]

FJ40Smurf wrote:
This single thread motivated me to join your forum! I just got back from Costco and thought I would post up some indepth info on the new Chinese generator they are selling.

Costco SKU = 123000
Alton AT04105D
Web Link: http://www.altonindustries.com/productsshow.asp?FMainCatalogId=12&FProductId=613

This is all the info I could get off the thing in the store.

Engine: Hangzhou Universal Industrial & Trade
Engine Family: 6H2US, 1961UN
196CC Build Date 10/2006
Emission Guarantee 125 Hrs
74DB@ 23Ft./7M
Sticker on box says "THD +or- 5%"
Comes with wheel kit and 1 year warranty.

This generator does feature a twistlock type 30A 220V plug. It also has two duplex 110V outlets. This is a link to the schematic for those who can decipher and let us know if it is wired to put full power to all outlets. http://www.altonindustries.com/partsGEN2.asp

I have read this entire thread and decided that one of these $250 3000W gensets are the right choice for me. I am probably going to buy this after work today. I know it is not a Champion but I am going to let Costco's excellent return policy protect me if this is junk. Based on the Alton Web site, it looks like these folks are going to be around for awhile.

If I do indeed buy this, I will review it here and keep you all posted on the durability and observations. Thanks for everyone's research on these little gensets! :B

John Smith

You are looking at a generator that is MUCH louder than the Champion, will most likely NOT give the full output to a single outlet (It will be split among the duplex outlets or will give 1/2 output per leg of the 240v plug to common), and if it fails you won't have access to the excellent Customer Service that Champion has provided.

If you are looking to use this with an RV, the 30 amp plug (with a full 29.2 amps available @120 volts) is sure nice to have. Keeps one from having to rewire or use multiple extension cords.

As for Costco's warranty, that's all it is. There's no Service available. You can bring the genset back but there is a good chance they won't have a replacement as they are a "batch buyer".

Since there is a remote chance you may end up with a Champion in the end, why not start with one that does everyting an RV'er needs and a lot quieter. 68 dba (Champion) vs 74 dba (Hangzhou/Alton).

[FJ40Smurf]

This single thread motivated me to join your forum! I just got back from Costco and thought I would post up some indepth info on the new Chinese generator they are selling.

Costco SKU = 123000
Alton AT04105D
Web Link: http://www.altonindustries.com/productsshow.asp?FMainCatalogId=12&FProductId=613

This is all the info I could get off the thing in the store.

Engine: Hangzhou Universal Industrial & Trade
Engine Family: 6H2US, 1961UN
196CC Build Date 10/2006
Emission Guarantee 125 Hrs
74DB@ 23Ft./7M
Sticker on box says "THD +or- 5%"
Comes with wheel kit and 1 year warranty.

This generator does feature a twistlock type 30A 220V plug. It also has two duplex 110V outlets. This is a link to the schematic for those who can decipher. http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/7754/schematicxd3.jpg

I have read this entire thread and decided that one of these $250 3000W gensets are the right choice for me. I am probably going to buy this after work today. I know it is not a Champion but I am going to let Costco's excellent return policy protect me if this is junk. Based on the Alton Web site, it looks like these folks are going to be around for awhile.

If I do indeed buy this, I will review it here and keep you all posted on the durability and observations. Thanks for everyone's research on these little gensets! :B

John Smith

[Mr__Tommy]

My Champion sits in a shed in the back yard when not in use (which is most all the time). The other day when it was 10 degrees here, I went out to see if it still started with one pull. Nope... It took (I think) three pulls. I'll live with that. That's quicker than my car!:W

[jmbrowning]

Champion gensets on clearance while supplies last
Out here in SoCal, the outlet is Kragen's.

Generators are on sale only while supplies last.

The Champion Power Equipment site doesn't seem to list these models anymore.

4450 Peak Watt Generator $299 EA.
* 3500 Running watts * 6.5HP OHV Gasoline Engine * 4 Gallon Fuel Tank * 12 Hours at 50% load * 1" Diameter Steel Frame #C46535.
SAVE $50 While Supplies Last

6800 Peak Watt Generator $399 EA.
#C41155.
SAVE $200 While Supplies Last

7500 Peak Watt Generator $599 EA.
#C41365.
SAVE $200 While Supplies Last

Get 'em while they're hot.

[Oldfordman]

Yesterday I got to join the "club" here in Washington State. The one that consists of those who have lost power due to our "interesting Winter".

Power went out about 1:00 AM and I knew it would be out for a while based on the wind outside.

Got up at 7:30 and started the Champion (first pull I might add) and made coffee. Hooked it to the furnace and it didn't even seem to change speed. Turned on the TV and watched some football. Coffee was getting cold so on with the Microwave.

All through the power outage it just kept running rather peacefully in the Garden Shed (with doors open). When the neighbor started his Honda, my wife said "what the heck is that?. It was a Honda EM 3800S and you could hear it for blocks. (only 71 dba and $2,000 though)

Every time I start and use my Champion I appreciate the $300 investment even more.

BTW, while running the 80,000 BTU furnace (Gas), the 1500 W microwave, the 350 W TV, the voltage at the outlet box I brought into the house was 121 volts (digital meter). The Genset was 50 feet away at the end of a 10/3 SO cord.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

jimmyfred - [New model Champion]

"Is this going to be an inverter model"?

Wishful thinking!
IMO, two chances of that: Slim and None!

Would defeat lots of reasons for buying the Champion -
especially the price!

If you need an inverter model - buy a Honda, Yamaha -
or an inverter "knock-off" of those - like the Kipor.

A Champion inverter model would probably be in the
Kipor price range - . . . and, considering Champion's track
record for service, it certainly would be a great (better?) choice!
[Paul Cole - take note!]
JC

[P_J1]

stockrex wrote:

jwitt wrote:
Just received a Cabella's flyer a couple days ago. They had the Champion RV model for $299. club price, If I remember correctly, the shipping was only $ 18.00.

how do you get the club price, it will be simpler to buy this from cabelas than to fight chicago traffic and head out to WI.
thanks,

I would be very surprised if the shipping was so cheap.

It weighs about 99lbs, I believe I paid about $40.00 in shipping.

If it is indeed correct, that is one heck of a deal. 🙂

[stockrex]

jwitt wrote:
Just received a Cabella's flyer a couple days ago. They had the Champion RV model for $299. club price, If I remember correctly, the shipping was only $ 18.00.

how do you get the club price, it will be simpler to buy this from cabelas than to fight chicago traffic and head out to WI.
thanks,

[MrWizard]

finman wrote:
is the Buffalo and the Champion made by the same people?
They look almost exact besides the color and plug options.

thanks,

finman

NO !

there are many 'look alikes' out there, and who knows maybe champion buys there 'frames' from the same factory

but the generator heads are different & and to some extent the engines are to, having internal differences, we can't see.

AFIAK: champion generators are NOT sold under any other Name,

this doesn't mean the buffalo is bad, or won't perform, it's just not a champion product

[WaltinColo]

jimmyfred wrote:

bobandcat wrote:
I can't speak specifically for the Gentron. I considered the Gentron but I couldn't get them to answer a few questions that I had asked them about it.

The Powerwise that I bought from Costco last summer was rated at 3000 watts and it ran my 15k AC unit just fine.

If you aren't in a big rush, you could wait for the noise reduced, electric start Champion that should be available soon and have the advantage of good customer support.

I recently had the opportunity to buy a Champion at a very good price. I replaced the Powerwise with the Champion.

.............Is this genset going to be an INverter model CHAMPION?? Certainly , hope So ! thanks , jf

Im not positive, but i think not...
Itll just have a better covering, bringing it down to the 60db range...

[jimmyfred]

bobandcat wrote:
I can't speak specifically for the Gentron. I considered the Gentron but I couldn't get them to answer a few questions that I had asked them about it.

The Powerwise that I bought from Costco last summer was rated at 3000 watts and it ran my 15k AC unit just fine.

If you aren't in a big rush, you could wait for the noise reduced, electric start Champion that should be available soon and have the advantage of good customer support.

I recently had the opportunity to buy a Champion at a very good price. I replaced the Powerwise with the Champion.

.............Is this genset going to be an INverter model CHAMPION?? Certainly , hope So ! thanks , jf

[bobandcat]

I can't speak specifically for the Gentron. I considered the Gentron but I couldn't get them to answer a few questions that I had asked them about it.

The Powerwise that I bought from Costco last summer was rated at 3000 watts and it ran my 15k AC unit just fine.

If you aren't in a big rush, you could wait for the noise reduced, electric start Champion that should be available soon and have the advantage of good customer support.

I recently had the opportunity to buy a Champion at a very good price. I replaced the Powerwise with the Champion.