3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Index_Jeff]

MountainHermit wrote:
In the UK these generators are typically rated at 3 kVa. with an output of 2.5kW and 2.8kW surge at 230 volts. We have checked the output an it is bang on. They have a 110v output as well.
The engines are marked as 6.5hp. I purchased mine from a 'man in a van' who comes out in the wilds here once a year selling Chinese gensets. I paid £160 for mine (about $300 US). I have had it for a year and have been very pleased. Although 'on the grid' our outages can last for a week. It is run for about 45 mins every month. It has been a reliable tool and there are many of them on the Island running the furnace and pump, freezers 'fridge and lights, TV etc. This list has been of great use to me..

I almost picked a name like Hermit myself, because I live in the mountains, in a remote area, and am pretty much a hermit. LOL (I live full-time in an RV.)

As for the generator, nothing I have read here discourages me from the champion.

If I add up everything I use on a daily basis... ON the grid... I don't come up with anything more than 2600watts anyway. In a power outage, I'd be using less than that and still be comfortable.

The weather here tends to the cool side. (Wet as well.) And in the month of summer we have here, I really do not need anything at all going, at night. I've never used an air conditioner here. Matter of fact, after 5 years, I just took it off of the rv to get it out of my way. I get maybe a week of temps that are high enough to make me uncomfortable. And a fan works just fine for that.

As for dino or synth... I had planned, after reading the warnings here, to do exactly as cmg3500 has done. Breakin with dino oil, maybe one or two more changes with dino oil. Then switch to synthetic and watch the genset carefully. Paying especial attention to the amount of metal "dust" I find in the used oil, from that point on.

[MountainHermit]

In the UK these generators are typically rated at 3 kVa. with an output of 2.5kW and 2.8kW surge at 230 volts. We have checked the output an it is bang on. They have a 110v output as well.
The engines are marked as 6.5hp. I purchased mine from a 'man in a van' who comes out in the wilds here once a year selling Chinese gensets. I paid £160 for mine (about $300 US). I have had it for a year and have been very pleased. Although 'on the grid' our outages can last for a week. It is run for about 45 mins every month. It has been a reliable tool and there are many of them on the Island running the furnace and pump, freezers 'fridge and lights, TV etc. This list has been of great use to me..

[bobandcat]

MrWizard wrote:
theoretically a 6.5 hp engine is over 4KW, never the less the 4.5KW Generac TXP rv genset that died and got replace, the engine was between 8-10 hp

I think 2.8 kw is a realistic expectation for continious duty in hot weather

Onan's manual is a little more conservative.
Their Homesite Power 3500 Chinese genset is rated at 2.5 kW at 1000 ft. elevation, 85 degrees F for an 8 hour continuous run time.

Their unit is warranted for commercial duty for one year and two years for home use. I don't believe that anyone else has a warranty for commercial duty.

Bottomline:
If you want long life, don't try to use more than 2500 watts except for start-up surges and don't run for more than 8 hours continuously. Finally, check and change the oil often.

[cmg3500]

I used 10w30 Dino oil in my Power Pro gen to break it in.
Now I use 10w30 Synthetic blend,& it seems to work good.The synthetic is supposed to hold up to the heat better than regular Dino oil.And I can use all the heat protection I can get living here in SE Louisiana.

[bugdude]

So what kind of oil are you using in you Champion?

Syn or Dino?

what weight?

[MrWizard]

theoretically a 6.5 hp engine is over 4KW, never the less the 4.5KW Generac TXP rv genset that died and got replace, the engine was between 8-10 hp

I think 2.8 kw is a realistic expectation for continious duty in hot weather

cooler temperatures will allow a little more power to be drawn from the engine and generator head, the head is really the deciding factor,

in the case of the generac RV 4500 the 10hp engine allowed for greater surge power under load from the A/C unit

the Champion tech, told me their head was specifically wound with the idea of RV's and A/c units and that it would deliver the minimum 3k rating ,

the unit is rated 3.5k with 4 k surge, but i wouldn't want to pull 3500 continuous from it

even the professor has made posts about temperature and power de-rating as the temps go up

usually the power listings will have an ambient air temp listed for that continuous wattage rating, and as the air temps go up the full power rating goes down

I think in cold weather, you can run these thing continuously , stopping only to cool the unit and fill the tank and check or change the oil, with out damage, as long as you didn't try to pull more than 3000 cont, most generators seem to at there best when the load is 50 to 75% of max run rating

start it up and add one load at a time, check the oil at least once a day to play safe.

these engines will use a little between changes, most engines do

engine manuals even for cars alway warn about 'excessive' oil use, they never say and engine uses NO oil

[bobandcat]

Index Jeff wrote:
I emailed Champion a couple days ago with a simple question, and they have not gotten back to me yet. So, I guess I'll ask the question here. LOL

Some generators have a limit on how long they can be continuously run.

Does the Champion C46540 have any such limit ?

I have had 5 power outages in the past two months. The longest was for 6 days. The next to longest was for 4, then 3. The shortest was just over 12 hours.

Is running the champion continuously for days like that, going to damage the generator ?

These Chinese generators are being rated at or above their capacity for a 6 1/2 HP engine. Therefore, running them continuously will kill them, especially if run near their capacity(either the engine or the generator head).

In the USA, they're generally rated at 3-3.5 kW. I took a Powerwise apart a few months back. Its generator head had specifications on it at 2.8 kW. Powerwise literature rated it at 3 kW, 3.5 kW peak. The peak seems to be set at 1 amp above the circuit breaker ratings times the voltage to obtain the peak wattage. I'm sure that the Champion that I own, rated at 3.5 kW & 4.45 kW peak is really stretching its ratings also. I also noticed that the Onan branded Chinese gensets are rated at 2.8 kW. A large well-known generator manufacture will be a little more realistic when rating a product with their name on it.

The Champion units sold in Canada are rated at 2.8 kW. Maybe the Canadian government is forcing them to be a little more realistic with their power output ratings.

None the less, I'm very happy to own one of these units that are fairly quiet and able to run my 5'er at a very reasonable price.

Professor and/or MR Wizard, what's your opinion on these genereator ratings?

[Index_Jeff]

MrWizard wrote:
the people who makes the synthetics will tell you that, but it really does depend on the metallurgy of the engine and the internal tolerances

an engine designed with a heavy viscosity natural oil in mind, can have to much space/play between bearings or other parts when using a thin viscosity synthetic, and even though the synthetic maybe slicker lube, it won't fill in the gap/play and cushion the parts, actually allowing for more wear

Hmmmm

Glad I mentioned it here.

[MrWizard]

Index Jeff wrote:

AZDesertRat wrote:
You might want to contact Champion about the synthetic oil, when I spoke to them they advised against it for some reason which I do not remember. I use synthetic or synthetic blend in just about every piece of powered equipment I own so I found that odd.

Thank you. I'll check with them.

I thought synthetic was better in every engine.

the people who makes the synthetics will tell you that, but it really does depend on the metallurgy of the engine and the internal tolerances

an engine designed with a heavy viscosity natural oil in mind, can have to much space/play between bearings or other parts when using a thin viscosity synthetic, and even though the synthetic maybe slicker lube, it won't fill in the gap/play and cushion the parts, actually allowing for more wear

[Index_Jeff]

AZDesertRat wrote:
You might want to contact Champion about the synthetic oil, when I spoke to them they advised against it for some reason which I do not remember. I use synthetic or synthetic blend in just about every piece of powered equipment I own so I found that odd.

Thank you. I'll check with them.

I thought synthetic was better in every engine.

[jimmyfred]

................With regular maintenance and frequent oil changes , I'd think these ginnys would be good for 2,000 hours of service and maybe more. jf

[AZDesertRat]

You might want to contact Champion about the synthetic oil, when I spoke to them they advised against it for some reason which I do not remember. I use synthetic or synthetic blend in just about every piece of powered equipment I own so I found that odd.

[tonyclifton]

Oldfordman,

I have that exact wagon! But I still think I'll try to make an axle to moveit around the garage easier.

[Index_Jeff]

Oldfordman wrote:
The end answer is dependant on how you care for the unit.

Thank you.

🙂

I have not bought the unit yet.

I plan to fill it with full synthetic. And use full synthetic for every change and fill.

[Oldfordman]

Index Jeff wrote:
I emailed Champion a couple days ago with a simple question, and they have not gotten back to me yet. So, I guess I'll ask the question here. LOL

Some generators have a limit on how long they can be continuously run.

Does the Champion C46540 have any such limit ?

I have had 5 power outages in the past two months. The longest was for 6 days. The next to longest was for 4, then 3. The shortest was just over 12 hours.

Is running the champion continuously for days like that, going to damage the generator ?

Engines that are run continuously with a steady load are in "Heaven". Periods of inactivity are when the contaminants take their toll. Acids that have formed in the oil due to condensation and combustion byproducts are the most common forms of damage.

As to running a Champion for extended periods, as long as you use the recommended grade of oil, changing it at recommended intervals, service the air cleaner, and do not overload the unit it will last for a surprisingly long time. Champion does not offer these units as "Commercial Grade" but with proper care that does not mean that they won't give great service. Most people will run their units while awake. They are shut down from bedtime to breakfast so that 100 hours between changes (of that is the recommendation) will take about 5-6 days.

The end answer is dependant on how you care for the unit.