3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[tonyclifton]

Howdy again folks!

I have fired up the C46540 twice now. Tonight I made sure my "RV plug into a duplex box via 10/3 SO cable" pigtail worked, which it did. After powering up a few things I shut off the gas supply to run the carb empty. I did this since I don't know how long until I run it again. I do have fuel stabilizer in it but still thought this was a good idea.

Is it OK on the engine? The engine ran a bit, then began like a full minute of bogging down and recovering. Just seemed to go on too long. Made me wonder if it was more detrimental than letting the gas stay in the carbs. I just didn't want it to dry out and gum things up.

[cicamper]

I had to take my Champion 46540 in for a warranty repair this week. It seems that there are multiple leaks in the fuel tank that eroded the rubber mounting grommets and leaked all over the intake and the floor of my garage. Never noticed it before as it burned fuel faster than leaking. Had half a tank left after recent ice storms and found most of it on the floor. So far Champion had been great - authorized the shop to replace the rubber grommets, bolts and new tank. Just backordered 2 weeks.

[bobandcat]

stockrex wrote:
Alton - I spent a few minutes looking at the part diag of the Alton at Costco while the wife and daughter was eating at the cafe, looks like the Alton DOES have an (electronic?) AVR. I am tempted to try this out, at $249 plus tax,

Give the Alton genset a try, but only at Costco!
If you're not happy with it, return it with your receipt.

[stockrex]

Alton - I spent a few minutes looking at the part diag of the Alton at Costco while the wife and daughter was eating at the cafe, looks like the Alton DOES have an (electronic?) AVR. I am tempted to try this out, at $249 plus tax,

Onan 6k watt with wheel kit at Costco - I read in another thread here that generator was the ONAN quality, very loud and other issue, the buyer had returned it.

Insulation - pls pls do not use any kind of low temp foam to make any sound muffling device/cover - one word FIRE - these burn at VERY low temp and set off toxic fumes.

[professor95]

There have been several discussions on sound abatement enclosures recently. I thought I would revisit the concept and throw out my efforts to achieve sound reduction.

Back in September I got a wild hair and decided to build a sound reduction enclosure for my old(er) ELM3000.

Objective #1 was to use materials I had around the Ranch rather than go out and buy new stuff.

I scrounged up some old Formica covered 3/4" plywood, sound matting that goes under the carpet for a car, a GM heater fan, scrap aluminum sheets, perforated HVAC grills and assorted plywood.

I posted some of the project photos in September but took them back down after several forum members suggested that it was not good thinking on my part. Actually, 5 months later I have lost interest in the project and don't care who copies what.

There are about 50 photos that you can view here.

I am not too good on these photo hosting service things so everything is backwards. If you start at the first photo it won't make any sense at all, thus start with the last photo and move in that direction.

Your first view will be thumbnails. Click on the thumbnails and you will get larger images you can page through.

Now, the essence of the project was to move as much air as I could while baffling sound. The "big" success was isolating the air intake on the engine shroud side from the mechanical noise of the engine. Without that, it would be just a box. Air comes in the bottom, is pulled thru the enclosure by the engine fan and aux fan and out the front. Note that airflow is "normal" across the cylinder fins and is routed over the generator before exiting.

Truth is, I never finished it. I did test it by duct taping on the front and top panels. Overall sound was reduced to a pleasant 59 dB. Temps stayed low. Problem #1 was the aluminum shield I used for the muffler chamber got warm enough to soften the glue on the matting. Maybe in retrospect it would be best not to use the aluminum as a heat sink.

Problem #2 was fuel delivery. I ended up using a 2-4 psi automotive fuel pump pulling from a remote tank. Even that was too much fuel pressure and the float bowl on the engine spilled fuel. I used an available 3 terminal voltage regulator to turn the fuel pump down to 4.5 volts. That worked fine.

The ELM3000 does not have a 12VDC winding. I needed to borrow 120 volts and feed it to a fairly sturdy step down transformer (also Junk) with a full wave bridge using 10 amp diodes to power the heater fan motor.

The assembly is pretty heavy and not really weather resistant. But, it will fit on the rear carrier of my trailer and can be covered with a small BBQ grill cover.

If you have questions, I will be glad to try and respond. Do not be disappointed if I am slow. Right now is extremely busy at the college and time is scarce.

Feel free to borrow, modify and experiment as you wish with these ideas. It is far from perfected and needs more work. Just remember, my goal was NOT to go out and buy new materials. Starting the project from scratch with new stuff could get expensive. (It might be better to buy a quiter Inverter gensetif that is the case. 🙂

[Index_Jeff]

bobandcat wrote:
Let me try to help with your propane question.

Bob, And Phil-Am,

Thank you both for the help.

That indeed does answer my question.

🙂

[dieselmec]

well professor95 bit the bullet this morning picked up c46540 at tractor supply for 349.00 hope the noise police will let me use it in national forest lol

[toprudder]

bobandcat wrote:
Let me try to help with your propane question. While I was searching around regarding propane conversions, I found this comparison at Onan. Its not for a Generac, but it will give you relative gasoline vs. propane usage numbers.

I do not have any direct experience with LP powered generators, so I can't really comment on those. However, I've spoken with a couple of freinds that have pickups that can run on either gas or LP. They both have told me that the mileage (and power) is a little less on LP than on gasoline, so that correlates well with the information in the chart you provided.

[Index_Jeff]

I believe most automotive fans can be run at different speeds. Varried by the amount of voltage.

I also believe that the right balance can be found between noise and air current, by varying the speed.

Once the best balance is determined, keep it there.

In the rv compartments with the mesh bottoms, mount the fan on the bottom of that. If it projects below the bottom of the body, put a shroud around it. The fan noise will be directed down.

On an open box, put the fan on top, aimed upward. Again, shroud around it so the sound does not go sideways, but up.

I plan to build a box of concrete blocks. 3 walls of blocks.

The front wall will be plywood and foam. With the fan mounted on the inside front, behind louvers. That wall will be removeable after the top is lifted. The top will be hinged on the back wall.

The bottom rear blocks will be set on their sides, to allow air passage.

There will be a row or two, (vertically), of blocks, 8 inches behind that back wall, to deflect the noise upward. That extra wall will come back along the sides by one block's length.

There will be foam on the concrete floor, Then a piece of plywood that does not reach the walls. The generator will sit on that.

That's as far as I have gotten in design in my head.

Nothing blocks noise like mass.

I am not concerned with weight here, because the generator is not going to be moved.

The point is to keep the neighbors from hearing the generator.

I have been without a generator many times, in power outages, and the neighbors had theirs running 24/7.

That is inconsiderate on several levels. For instance, consider laying in bed at night. The only noise is the sound of the neighbor's generator. And you are either unable to sleep because it is sweltering, or you are freezing your noogies off, and wrapped in every blanket in the house.

I do not wish to do that to my neighbors.

[joelabq]

I just got my enclosure "running" although still unfinished. I'm using a 12v automotive fan (since I've got a few spare from the car hobby).

I will gladly go into more detail once I have finished the box and made sure I won't have any heating issues. I'm working on how to duct the air intakes to keep the gen/engine cool.

Currently, at 10ft away on the plug side of my RV ready Champion, I am getting 70dbA. On the opposing side from 23ft away, I am getting a dismal 55dbA, or at 10ft I get around 70dbA.

One note about the 12v automotive fan is that the fan itself does add to the noise. Close to 2dbA over the enclosure without. That is, at least with my current install.

I constructed the box from 3/4" MDF, 2" of poly-cotton batting, and 12v automotive fan. In the future I would like to try a similar box made from 1/8" Tin or another lighter weight material. the generator is still MUCH heaver then the box however.

Joel

[Index_Jeff]

Ok, time for me to make what I hope will be a few useful suggestions here, my own self.

Re: sound abatement.

From the construction trade, I suggest what is called "SillSeal". And "Grace, Ice and Water Sheild."

From the automotive... Yer ordinary junkyard cooling fan.

~~~

The sillseal is a sort of styrofoam product. Kind of halfway between plastic and styrofoam. It comes in a roll that is 3" wide, to 6 or 8 inches wide. By 25 to 50 feet long, or more. Fairly cheap. 3 or 4 bucks the last time I bought a roll.

This is laid down on top of the foundation, before the sill is laid down. It helps to keep the sill from absorbing water over time, from the concrete. Also seals any small gaps between the wooden sill plate, and the uneven concrete surface.

The ice and water seal is a sort of large rubber patch. You peel back the liner, and stick it down where you want it. Be careful, it will stick REAL fast. And sticks to almost anything. (Don't get it on you, or you will be wearing it until it wears off by attrition.)

The actual Grace Ice and Water Sheild comes in a very large roll and costs at least a 100 dollars. But... You can get the very same stuff cut down to about a 16 inch wide roll, for about 16 dollars. It is made for trimming/sealing around window openings.

The I&W is laid on a clean roof sheated surface. (The plywood.) Tarpaper may be laid over that, and the shingles go on top. The biggest purpose to the I&W is that it seals around every shingle mail that goes through it. Believe me, the stuff is awesome when it comes to making a roof leakproof.

Now, the purpose to these two, would be to use the sillseal as a gasket material... And the I&W can be used for either/or gaskets, and panel soundproofing.

To whit:

The sillseal is easily cut with scissors or utility knife to pretty much any shape you want. It can be used, stacked or not, as a gasket between two mechanical parts to keep them from rattling.

The I&W is actually a bit more useful.

I completely deadened all the road noise in an old nova using this stuff.

Cut it into the size you want, clean the metal panel, stick the I&W down... and viola', no more noise.

I stuck large patches if the I&W to the insides of the door panels. (Inside the body of the door. Not just on the inside of the car. LOL) On the firewall and floor, under the carpet. And on the roof, then put the headliner back over it. It almost completely eliminated any noise in that car.

It can be used as gaskets between rattling parts as well. With the advantage of actually sticking to one or the other...

Now, as for the 12v cooling fan from a junkyard...

1.) LOTS of air movement.
2.) Since it comes out of a car, it is going to be a LOT more forgiving of changing voltages, than those 12v computer/muffin type fans everyone has been talking about.
3.) If you go pull one out of a car yourself, half the time they'll just give you the fan. If not, they are usually pretty cheap, if you choose the right car. LOL
4.) It's already got a handy, dandy mounting bracket that can be adapted to almost anywhere.

I hope this helps someone, and/or gives someone some good ideas for their own project.

🙂

[phil-am]

Gasoline vs Propane vs Natural Gas consumption/power and dual or tri-fuel conversion kits info here:

http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/fuel_consumption.htm


http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/faq's.htm#What%20is%20the%20fuel%20consumption%...

[bobandcat]

Index Jeff wrote:

But I have looked through this thread and found only one psuedo answer to the question of how much propane a generator will use in relation to how much gasoline it would use.

Let me try to help with your propane question. While I was searching around regarding propane conversions, I found this comparison at Onan. Its not for a Generac, but it will give you relative gasoline vs. propane usage numbers.

[Index_Jeff]

Mel wrote:
Edit - for the full size, right click and save to your diskdrive. Use any graphics program to open and resize it. It is stretching the screen width as loaded. Mel

Mel, I just wanted to say thank you for that.

I moderate elsewhere, (actually several places.), so I am aware of the job you have to do. And how much of it that is never seen or recognized.

I would have taken the time to do the same as you have, but I have not seen many mods who would.

I wanted to write anyway, and take the opportunity to mention something else...

I have seen many mentions in this thread about the apparent civility and cohesion throughout.

I totally agree. This thread stands almost in a class of it's own.

Much credit and honor has been given to the professor, and a couple others, along the way. And very deservedly so. VERY much so.

But I have not yet seen any credit or honor given to you, who have done much behind the scenes, to keep this thread in the fashion we have all come to expect and appreciate. (Of course, I STILL have not accomplished reading every single post yet. Getting real close though. Do I get a prize for finishing the marathon even though I am tardy ? LOL)

Thank you for your work, mr Moderator. This thread, and the rest of the forum would not be what it is without your work, and the work of others like you.

🙂

[Index_Jeff]

professor95 wrote:
I got a chance to look over an Alton from Costco today.

Professor,

I realize that it gets tiring, answering what seem like the same questions over and over again.

But I have looked through this thread and found only one psuedo answer to the question of how much propane a generator will use in relation to how much gasoline it would use.

That answer can be nutshelled as... it is ridiculous to ask for a comparison. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

The reason I asked the question of you in particular, is because you have the experience of running a Generac on gasoline for a while, and then switching to propane. Plus you obviously tend to keep better records of this stuff than most. You should have some idea of how one compares to the other.

I am not actually looking for "better gas mileage" so to speak. If that were why I ask, the previous answer would make sense.

The reason the comparison is important is because I simply want to know how much propane I can expect to use. Knowing how much is used, in comparison to how much gasoline is used, gives me and pretty much anyone else a basis for comparison, so we can figure out how much propane we can expect to use.

I am sorry if I am coming across as a pain in the arse.