3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[pitstop]

I posted a question in a new thread a couple days ago and thought I'd ask here also.
I have the Champion C46540 and figured out that it is wired neutral floating, not bonded. I want to purchase a surge/voltage protector like the EMS HW30. However, Progressive Industries says that it doesn't work with some generators. Seems the protector senses open ground or polarity issue on gens without bonding. Progressive said I could make an adapter to tie them together at the gen, but I don't think that's a good idea.

Any ideas on how to provide protection from shore and genny malfunction in a TT?

[BFRXLT]

I have a question for any one whom can answer it.

I would like to know what a reasonable temperature I could expect on say a 90 degree day for the oil and the hot exhaust air (not the engine exhaust)?

I am talking about the oil temperature I could for the engine oil if I took one of the drain plugs out and put in an oil temperature gauge.

I am talking about the air temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the shroud after cooling the engine.

If any one has something they have actually measured that would be the best scenario. It doesn't have to be a 90 degree day but the relevant ambient temperature.

What I am trying to find out is what temperature to expect the oil/air to be under a half load without any enclosure and with an enclosure so I can buy an appropriate gauge for the engine without guessing since I don't have anything that measures temperatures that high and don't want to spend the money on something I'll probably never use again.

Thanks, Jack

[professor95]

All seems to be well in the land of the free and the plenty. O&S and I have worked whatever issues may have existed off of the forum and I look forward to new contributions by Floyd as well as myself. Like a wise Wizard on this forum said a few days ago(not in these exact words) what is in the past is exactly that, in the past.

Now, let's move on to the business of 3,000 watt Chinese Generators:

CPE technical services was kind enough to mail me their new tridigital meter for testing and evaluation. It came unannounced in a box yesterday, without a schematic. I need to get in touch with the head tech service honcho there and find out how the two unidentified wires attach. Once complete, I'll share the details. The meter appears to be universal enough to fit any make or model 3,000 watt 120 volt genny, but it does NOT fit the old analog meter hole. Tri-digital is suppose to give voltage, running time to 999 hours, frequency and rpm (Humm.... that's quad digital).

I also received a new set of rocker arms for the 6.5 engine. These will apparently be a rolling upgrade for newer models as they come off the assembly line. This is the third generation of these arms. 1st was really cheap looking stamped metal (original Honda design), second generation was forged rocker arms and now a battleship built style stamped rocker arm. I do not know about cost and availability as a retrofit, hopefully they will soon appear on CPE's web site as a part or accessory. Again, these should fit any Chinese built 6.5 HP, 196-200 cc Honda GX style engine - even the original Honda GX 200! It sort of surprises me though, I was not aware there were rocker arm problems - but, apparently there have been enough to make them create a new design. I'll get a photo up soon, right now I need to get out the door and do some shopping to prepare for my bride's big six-o birthday party this weekend. BTW, I believe the forum turns three years old on Monday. Anybody want to celebrate? I always look for an excuse to have a party.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

.

[mcmurphrjk]

I see that someone has been doing a little cleanup on this thread. I wonder what was so offensive about my post of last night that warranted deletion? You would think that if the moderators were to delete such an innocuous post they would at least P.M. me with an explanation?

[MrWizard]

Oh man that comic is great.... thanks for the laugh !

[phil-am]

Which reminds me...

[MrWizard]

I think 'floyd' that your biggest problem here, is resurrecting OLD posts and trying to get new answers

you have manage to bring up posts from 6 months to almost 3 yrs ago.

reading it all is great...but dragging up from the past to 'today' making a cryptic comment and trying to get new answers, getting tiresome...

IF you have a NEW insight and knowledge to add to that situation

then please do, QUOTE the post and add the new knowledge,

if you do not understand the answer to the post, then request clarification

other wise 'LEAVE IT BE'

dead posts are DEAD POSTS !

some of your posts verge on being TROLLING

and i'm beginning to think you make the post just to see your words in print and have something to do during the day or evening or what ever /when ever your bored !

edited for typos and clarification

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Well, I see the date of Oct. 17th on the Post of "dandreas611" showing his accomplishments and the date of Oct 15th on Professor's long and detailed post. So are we to think dandreas611 got all his ideas from Profs' post of Oct 15th? My thought is many folks who own Chinese gennys (some for several years) have some original ideas. Perhaps, if the truth were known, many have had projects in the making for quite a long time. It would be nice if this thread could continue with original thinking posted as time goes by.

What is this all about? If you have something specific to share or get off your chest concerning me, my work and postings, please e-mail me directly so we may discuss whatever. I am not sure what you are alluding to with this post, but what I read "between the lines" does concern me.

Prof95:

Perhaps, I am guilty of being to cryptic in suggesting credit could be given 'dandreas611' for his retrofitted compartment for the safe use of a Chinese (non Champion?) genset. His post was only two days after your Copy Right covered Post. That means it had to have been completed prior to your post of 8-15-07 so hardly plagiarism. This great fellow Texan did give credit to this thread for his ideas. Yes, Professor we all owe you now and ever for sharing your knowledge in generators and related subjects. IMHO, any mfg would benefit from the discoveries you have encountered with these Chinese gennys. Hope this is stated more clearly.


Floyd

[Acampingwewillg]

"Billmx43".....you certainly hit it right on about not wanting to read through 5000 plus posts......I will admitt, I looked at these posts in the beginning but I sure havent followed it from day to day...SO, I am one who is very appreciative to those such as the Professor who obviously has a tremendouus knowledge in this area and who is willing to share it over and over again no matter if it was said 2500 posts ago....I Thank you, Professor, for your patience and insight. Good Night all...

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Prof95

My language Master gives, 'Forum'.... 'A medium for open discusion'

Again, what is this all about? These cryptic, incomplete responses that appear to have no relevance to the forum or topic at hand leave me completely baffeled. If I am to assume that you have some sort of issue with me, this is NOT the medium for open discussion. Once again, I invite you to e-mail me so we may discuss whatever it is......

[billmx43]

Old & Slow wrote:
Well, I see the date of Oct. 17th on the Post of "dandreas611" showing his accomplishments and the date of Oct 15th on Professor's long and detailed post. So are we to think dandreas611 got all his ideas from Profs' post of Oct 15th? My thought is many folks who own Chinese gennys (some for several years) have some original ideas. Perhaps, if the truth were known, many have had projects in the making for quite a long time. It would be nice if this thread could continue with original thinking posted as time goes by.

My answer to the highlighted question is obviously no and that thought never crossed my mind.....I think that many people, probably most of whom never even heard of this forum, might just be working on similar projects simultanously. I also think, as you state, that many folks have original, and often very similar, ideas. From what I've seen this thread has continued and will continue to continue ;)with original thinking. However....that certianly doesn't mean we can't be helped along with occasional reminders as to what others have already tried. Both their successes and their failures. Floyd...you seem to be insinuating that somehow the prof is squelching originality in this thread. Personally I don't see that at all. While I did actually read this entire thread when I first found it I would venture to say that most new readers don't do that and having older posts brought up for their attention is much better than telling them "the answer is somewhere in these 500 plus pages...good luck!" Perhaps you didn't intend it but I definately got the feeling you were taking a jab at prof95 with this post. While there have been a couple of instances of "buy red or blue or you're an inconsiderate fool" posts for the most part this thread has managed to avoid the type of personal conflict that seems to pervade so many other forum topics. Hopefully it can stay that way!

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Well, I see the date of Oct. 17th on the Post of "dandreas611" showing his accomplishments and the date of Oct 15th on Professor's long and detailed post. So are we to think dandreas611 got all his ideas from Profs' post of Oct 15th? My thought is many folks who own Chinese gennys (some for several years) have some original ideas. Perhaps, if the truth were known, many have had projects in the making for quite a long time. It would be nice if this thread could continue with original thinking posted as time goes by.

What is this all about? If you have something specific to share or get off your chest concerning me, my work and postings, please e-mail me directly so we may discuss whatever. I am not sure what you are alluding to with this post, but what I read "between the lines" does concern me.

Prof95

My language Master gives, 'Forum'.... 'A medium for open discusion'

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Well, I see the date of Oct. 17th on the Post of "dandreas611" showing his accomplishments and the date of Oct 15th on Professor's long and detailed post. So are we to think dandreas611 got all his ideas from Profs' post of Oct 15th? My thought is many folks who own Chinese gennys (some for several years) have some original ideas. Perhaps, if the truth were known, many have had projects in the making for quite a long time. It would be nice if this thread could continue with original thinking posted as time goes by.

What is this all about? If you have something specific to share or get off your chest concerning me, my work and postings, please e-mail me directly so we may discuss whatever. I am not sure what you are alluding to with this post, but what I read "between the lines" does concern me.

[MrWizard]

did you look at the website spec's, pictures are NOT to size

Small 0-200 Vac meter for monitoring AC line voltage. Scale is partitioned into three sections with 0-90V in silver, 95-120V in green and above 120V in red. Black face, silver lettering, white indicator line. Clear plastic housing is 1.56" square x 0.87" deep. Display portion of meter is 1.41" x 0.82".
CAT# MET-63

Your Price: $1.75 each

new one 1.56 vs old one 1.5 yeah, i think it WILL fit

Pirate wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
try www.allectronic.com

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/MET-63/385/AC_VOLT_METER_.html

this one might fit..cost $1.75


heres another one cost $12.00
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PMA-150V/385/150V_AC_PANEL_METER_.html

I don't think those will work. My ELM3000 meter is only about 1.5 inches x 1.5 inches. 1.5 sq vs 1.56sq.