3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Mr Wizard wrote:

nice photo shop work, but wheres the 120v power plug that is powering the OLD B&W TV thats on

It is running off the inverter. Photo was made during genny quite hours.

[professor95]

JConaster wrote:
I see that while I've been away camping it's been asserted that in my post of 7/24 I stated something "contrary" to fact. As I've never been one to argue, I will not do that here; accordingly, this will be my one and only follow-up post on this subject.

James, if I in any way offended you by my differing view, I sincerely apologize. That was not my intent.

Many different views have been and will be experienced on this thread. Many of mine are frequently challenged, and sometimes even proven to be in error. Paradigms change and the one I learned 40 years ago about the potential damage of "dirty power" has changed with the introduction of switching power supplies and MOVs. Yes, I am frequently strongly opinionated - much of that comes from 40 years of teaching. I doubt it will regress at this stage in my life.

One thing for sure on this thread - we agree to disagree and still be friends. I hope you agree to that one!:)

Again, sorry if I offended you by my counter view. I was not intentionally out to put anyone down.

[Old___Slow]

prof,

you show a scope pic of a 4008 (40008) howabout a scope pic of a c46540 is it dirty power like a power pro? i think only you and wiz have a champion 40008. oh, just for info' is there a electric start champion in stock somewhere you might give us a link? and the price?

[Old___Slow]

Slybones wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
kk,

in those temps last winter here in texas i made a enclosure with 2" foam and left only one inch space on the muffler side. cut out for the air intake to the engine and genhead and just below the fuel tank on the genhead end cut a 2" by 12" opening for the air exhaust. the inside temp was only 115 degrees. no additional fan was needed. 63/64 dbA.

floyd

What is the max temp we should have inside our enclosures?

I am still looking / waiting for the enclosure idea. I like Prof's idea you guys pointed me to a few pages back, but thats more than I can handle. I was thinking I like the 2x2 frame, with 3.5" bolts and wingnut idea.

The manual says to have at least 2 feet space on each side. From reading this I assume that if I build a plywood box that was closed off except on once side and had the exhaust facing out the open side, it would still get too hot inside and I would be blocking all the fresh air.

This makes me wonder if I could just leave it in the back of the truck under the canopy/cap and point the exhaust out the back, with the hatch and tailgate open. Have it pointed back towards the trailer.

slybones,

the champion manual is a head banger. anyone reading it will be ready for the rubber room. seems to me it's all a disclaimer for any product mfg liability. but, the statement the units need 2/3' of space all around may be correct. in the temps you mentioned i found less space is needed. i simply enclosed a unit with 2" foam covered with 1/8" hardboard, made the cut outs for the air intake to the engine and genhead, cut a 2" x 12" opening below the fuel tank for the exhaust air and found sufficient cooling to be ok. that was on a 32 degree day. above that temp, a additional fan was needed. in all my present trials i use a 1150 cfm 12v 80w procomp fan installed on a 2 x 4 covered platform. (with the new champ 120v only, this fan will be out of the question) it's installed to exhaust under the genhead exhaust fan, sucking all the heated air out of any style enclosure used. i have one enclosure based on a principal designed by brad knobal that is a true 60 dbA. i'm after reaching 55 or maybe even 50 someday. all from a stock frame. yes, prof, has a beautiful black box and i agree, that's more than i can handle. i have no welding skill and little wood working skills for that matter. it's just a blast and fills in the time. was only able to work in the shop 2/3 hours a day before a tried to support myself on one arm in a fall two weeks ago. so today i go in for surgery. please try to go forward with the desire to build a frame with the 2 x 2 idea. if you could try hardie panels or backerboard you might be the first to report the outcome. i'm looking for prof to post a project with the use of this product. maybe even a portable style ?

floyd

[MrWizard]

professor95 wrote:
We had a great time at the beach. The little Champion generator performed flawlessly. Now we are back home and must return to our "normal lives".

A fellow camper took this shot with my Brownie camera. I just got the film developed. That's our dog, Oscar, in the lower right.

nice photo shop work, but wheres the 120v power plug that is powering the OLD B&W TV thats on

kinda looks like you & the misses hand a rough trip

[JConatser]

I see that while I've been away camping it's been asserted that in my post of 7/24 I stated something "contrary" to fact. As I've never been one to argue, I will not do that here; accordingly, this will be my one and only follow-up post on this subject. 🙂

Basically, the statements I made in my post on 7/24 were based upon specific experiences that I have had in my 40+ years as a technician/engineer in the electronics industry. However, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm merely making a statement based on what I have personally experienced. If you've experienced something different than what I've experienced---hey, no problem; go with what your experience tells you is fact. That for sure is what I'm going to continue to do. 😉

[professor95]

Slybones wrote:
This makes me wonder if I could just leave it in the back of the truck under the canopy/cap and point the exhaust out the back, with the hatch and tailgate open. Have it pointed back towards the trailer.

Sure. I've done that. I kept the front slider window open, closed the tailgate and ran the exhaust thru the roof of the cap. I needed to plug in a cheap 120 VAC Wal-Mart box fan near the window (about 19" I think??) to keep air moving in and out of the camper cap - it can get pretty warm in there as heat from the genny equals as much as two 1,500 watt electric heaters (about 11,000 BTU.)

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
professor95,

maybe you can give us a heads up on champion and ultra-fab. i do not find any blue ultra-gen units listed on the market.

I may have some additional information. Can't guarantee the validity since my source is often wishy-washy.

I appears that product development and marketing have been handed over to a large corporation in Redmond, WA. Thus, the 2008 Ultra-Fab will be released in the spring of 2009 only in the beta version code named “Ultra-Fib”.

Once the buyers have identified all of the bugs the engineers included in the product, we should see a final release of the 2008 model by early 2010.

I understand that all new models will have a product authentication code included. After five starts without the code the AVR will lock up. You will need to complete product registration on-line and punch an authorization number into the tridigital meter before it will start again. This is being done as an effort to prevent cloning by other Chinese manufacturers, such as Honda. :Z

message received. thumbs down, one anyway, i'll stick with xp and yeller and black. goood nite and god bless america.

gimppy arm, lamont

[Slybones]

Old & Slow wrote:
kk,

in those temps last winter here in texas i made a enclosure with 2" foam and left only one inch space on the muffler side. cut out for the air intake to the engine and genhead and just below the fuel tank on the genhead end cut a 2" by 12" opening for the air exhaust. the inside temp was only 115 degrees. no additional fan was needed. 63/64 dbA.

floyd

What is the max temp we should have inside our enclosures?

I am still looking / waiting for the enclosure idea. I like Prof's idea you guys pointed me to a few pages back, but thats more than I can handle. I was thinking I like the 2x2 frame, with 3.5" bolts and wingnut idea.

The manual says to have at least 2 feet space on each side. From reading this I assume that if I build a plywood box that was closed off except on once side and had the exhaust facing out the open side, it would still get too hot inside and I would be blocking all the fresh air.

This makes me wonder if I could just leave it in the back of the truck under the canopy/cap and point the exhaust out the back, with the hatch and tailgate open. Have it pointed back towards the trailer.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
professor95,

maybe you can give us a heads up on champion and ultra-fab. i do not find any blue ultra-gen units listed on the market.

I may have some additional information. Can't guarantee the validity since my source is often wishy-washy.

I appears that product development and marketing have been handed over to a large corporation in Redmond, WA. Thus, the 2008 Ultra-Fab will be released in the spring of 2009 only in the beta version code named “Ultra-Fib”.

Once the buyers have identified all of the bugs the engineers included in the product, we should see a final release of the 2008 model by early 2010.

I understand that all new models will have a product authentication code included. After five starts without the code the AVR will lock up. You will need to complete product registration on-line and punch an authorization number into the tridigital meter before it will start again. This is being done as an effort to prevent cloning by other Chinese manufacturers, such as Honda. :Z

[Old___Slow]

prof,

forgiven, we all know the short of it. lol. i will say 'much worry will spoil the party' carry on.

floyd

[professor95]

old & slow wrote:
prof,

pretty sharp critique of concerned owners who think champion power might not be 'pure' ... anal owners?

OK, thanks!

I made the proper edit and added "retentive". Guess some one could get the wrong idea.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The term anal-retentive (or anally retentive, anal retentive), commonly abbreviated to "anal", is used conversationally to describe a person with such attention to detail that the obsession becomes an annoyance to others, and can be carried out to the detriment of the anal-retentive person. The term derives from Freudian psychoanalysis."

[Old___Slow]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Prof - all xlnt points!



I'll hang back - before jumping in on my own idea.
Kinda like the old Jack Benny line to the holdup man who says,

"Your money or your life!"

- no answer.

Holdup guy repeats, "Your money or your life!"

looooonnnnng pause . . . . .

Benny: "I'm thinking, I'm thinking!"

JC

i think i too will hang back from jumping in with one of my own ideas or questions.

it's my life and my money and 'i'm thinking' --- jack was in there.

floyd

[Old___Slow]

prof,

pretty sharp critique of concerned owners who think champion power might not be 'pure' ... anal owners?

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
professor95,

maybe you can give us a heads up on champion and ultra-fab. i do not find any blue ultra-gen units listed on the market. ??? a local rv dealer is showing on his website a ultra-gen 3500 but it's a yellow and black champion with the 120/240 twist lock but guess it's 120v only. price $481.00...yes those who are thinking about buying a 3000w genset should get on maybe that last train out with a cheap ticket price. what's the price of the new model at your lowe's?

You apparently know more about the UltraFab than I do. Back when the ads first appeared I was told by an "internal guy" that they were jumping the gun as the blue units were not in the warehouse.