3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Old & Slow wrote:
Bob(bobandcat)

We all pick up great ideas from others. In your post you mentioned using insulation from a oven. Wow, that is new to me. I used reg house insulation once and found it melted next the the manifold. That's when I checked the temp at the manifold and found 400 degree plus. 'The tip' on using oven insulation sounds correct. Got more?

Wow Floyd !! -
In your post following this one, you said your shop is 110 degrees !!
Tip: Another use for "oven insulation", LOL! :B

~

[professor95]

Wrace wrote:

professor95 wrote:
It does NOT provide the full 3,000 watts to a single outlet when set to 120 VAC.

Please refresh my memory, what is the easiest way to tell if your gen is one of them that needs rewire for full performance? I have the 3500/4000 yellow one purchased a couple years ago from the auto supply store and keep meaning to verify if it needs rewiring or is good to go.

Thanks
Wayne

If yellow = Champion:

Model number 36535 needs the rewire for 30 amp RV use.

Model number 36540 does not need rewire.

[Old___Slow]

Hmmm, I'm now lost as a goose in fog. After spending some time in the shop with my Champion C46540, I now question if it's the ideal genset for back up power or a contractor type needing to operate several pcs tools.. It has two 15a reset push button type breakers and one single 20a 120 volt receptacle. At one time I plugged a power strip into the single outlet and operated a 1500w heater and a 200w power drill but that is the most wattage I've tried. The gensets with the duplex wired from seperate windings ( like the 98706 from HF) gives, I guess, apx 1500w on each end of the duplex. How would I get that much from my Champion C46540?

[MrWizard]

the easy indicator that says you have split load is when the back of the outlet has (2) wires on the hot side of the duplex and the gold tab between the receptacles broken.

but it gets more complicated
some other generators have a single hot wire, but only use (1) winding when coming from the voltage switch, to verify these means looking at the schematic or tracing the wiring

the ones with NO 240 voltage switch and 120v only are the gauranteed easy use

if your is an older Champion with the voltage switch, my memory says its full power at 120v with paralleled windings, but it does suffer from having (1) CB in the hot and (1) in the neutral for the second winding. ( this is common for all FIRST generation chinese gennies with a voltage switch )

[Wrace]

professor95 wrote:
It does NOT provide the full 3,000 watts to a single outlet when set to 120 VAC.

Please refresh my memory, what is the easiest way to tell if your gen is one of them that needs rewire for full performance? I have the 3500/4000 yellow one purchased a couple years ago from the auto supply store and keep meaning to verify if it needs rewiring or is good to go.

Thanks
Wayne

[Old___Slow]

Okay, thanks, I get the idea. Two different needs. One for back up power or portable tool use and one for portable RV use. I have my Champion C46540 in the shop (electric start and duel gas/lpg) for two reasons. One to entertain myself building boxes and then it is available for back power to the stick house. I've wondered what I could expect from it's output in the shop using the single outlet for total power?

Still would be nice if I could look at a 6.5 hp genset at HF and be able to buy one. I did see one about a year or two ago, but at the time I had no interest to check things out in the manual. Well, then too, at the time you had not advanced my limited knowledge of all these pitfalls.

[professor95]

Floyd,

What you say is true for many of us who own a RV and want a generator.

Traditionally, few consumers other than RV owners need more than 15 amps at a single outlet on a portable generator (well, sometimes 20 amps). After all, residential small appliance branch circuits are only 15 or 20 amps each. Thus, there are still many portable generators sold that split the output at the duplex outlet.

If a camper is NOT interested in being able to run a rooftop air conditioner this generator will do a good job "as is" for battery charging, microwave, general purpose lighting and running a coffee pot or entertainment equipment. But, I would run an extension cord from the "other" outlet to the microwave if it were also plugged into the camper and power being used for the converter, water pump, lights, TV, etc.

I have seen this generator in our store and examined it top to bottom. I even posted photos of it last April or May (sometime??) after I saw it. It is a 6.5 HP engine and the wattage rating is 3,000. The engine is a JD engine. Its design somewhat different to what we are accustomed to in the "run-of-the-mill" 3,000 watt Chinese generator genre.

The generator shown in the advertisement (65414) is not in the catalog. The 6.5 HP unit in the catalog is a different unit. HF does not have all of the items in its catalog in the retail stores, and some items in the retail stores cannot be bought on-line from the catalog. (go figure :h )

IMHO it is a good buy for $200 (if one is counting pennies). But, our thread readers should know beforehand that it will need rewiring if the intended use is to power a 30 amp outlet for an RV - including the RV air conditioner. I would hate for someone to buy this generator for a RV thinking it was a parallel winding model and then learn it only supplies 1,500 watts to a single 120 volt outlet unless they were prepared to do the rewire.

You are right on the orange adapter thing. Guess that is why their ads now state for use only on Honda and Yamaha 120 volt models.

[Old___Slow]

I find the Harbor Freight ad quite interesting. When I visited my local HF store, not one 6.5 hp genny in stock. In the ad you must buy from a store, not on line. Well, the ad did bring me in the door. So, what's up?? Now, I went online and this get more interesting. They list a 6.5 hp gen (full price) like this: 2800w Max 2600w rated. This must be the honest part?


What really concerns me is the fact that someone might try and use one of those duplex/rv adapters on a NEMA 5 20r (Like on HF 98706) How utterly DANGEROUS. And then too, buying a gen that needs rewiring to give the full 120v output, on one recp't:h

I must add: I'm no 'lectrician.

[professor95]

If you are a member of "The Good Sam Club" you receive the Highways magazine as a part of your membership.

In the October 2009 issue there is a full page ad for HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLS on page 7.

Their 3,500 watt Chinese generator that normally sells for $349.00 at the Retail Stores is being offered as part of a "Super Coupon" sale for $150 off - or $199.99.

To get the price you are required to have the original coupon from the Highways advertisement (no photocopies) and buy the generator at a Retail Store. I do not know if the same ad can be found in other magazines or publications. Popular Science and Popular Mechanics sometimes run identical or similar ads.

This is the generator we discussed back on 5/18/2009. It does NOT provide the full 3,000 watts to a single outlet when set to 120 VAC. But, the rewire to convert the generator to a full wattage RV compatible unit is simple and straight forward. The rewire schematic is on this page of the 3,000 Watt Chinese Generator Information thread.

This is one heck of a good price - even if the rewire and addition of a 30 amp outlet or adapter may be required. I am tempted to go buy one just because of the price - even though I have no use for yet another Chinese generator :B

Full Page Ad Copy


Close-Up of the Generator Super Coupon


The fine print in the coupon

[professor95]

bobandcat wrote:

mauricedorris wrote:
...I can see how heat from the 3/4 inch exhaust is going to be a problem. I am thinking of getting some aluminum flashing and putting some sort of heat shield between the generator and the exhaust....

Maurice,
You definitely should insulate the pipe from the engine through the floor of the enclosure.Take a quick look at

bobandcat wrote:
The exhaust piping inside the compartment was insulated with high temp fiberglass insulation re-purposed from an oven to reduce heat load in the compartment. The muffler was insulated and wrapped to reduce heat transfer and noise. A piece of 1/4” thick hardbacker board was added between the insulated exhaust pipe and the genhead to reduce the exhaust heat load on the generator windings.

Great idea - if you can find an old oven. Maybe at an appliance store that removes old appliances? City recycling center or dump? Put an ad on Craig's list offering to haul away an old oven for free?

[professor95]

Exhaust Pipe Insulation:

About an inch (thick) of loosely crumpled heavy duty aluminum foil wrapped over the pipe then wrapped with solid sheets of foil and tied in place with mechanic's wire works pretty good too.

If you are going to use a piece of flex exhaust to build a vibration link to the Cherry Bomb muffler with cast pipe adapters, use the remaining flex OVER the 3/4" pipe with some crumpled aluminum foil inside for spacing and support.

[Old___Slow]

Just to make sure about the manifold temp, I went out to the shop and did some checking. Amb is 89.6 ~ Shop 110 degrees. The temp at the manifold just past the head reads with no load 406 and with a 1500w load from a heater, the temp went up to 426. Now my question remains. By wrapping the manifold to the muffler, will this not cause more heat to back up to the head. From the factory, the manifold is only 3 1/2" then direct into the muffler, where the heat is dispersed. When I wrapped the muffler in place, this really did cause more problems. Then the project lead to moving the muffler to the location of the old Onan. 36" total with to many 90's Brad makes a comment that adding to the length, perhaps this might be the reason for reduced output. More heat, less output. This idea of the wide turns should be a great help. In my old MH retro, on a 90 degree plus day, I could not maintain 16a for more than 20 minutes without the genset shutting down. Perhaps this was due to my retro. All this with a 1150 cfm fan sucking the heat out just below the genhead exhaust. Improvement is shown with Brad and Bob using conduit with wide turns and now Maurice following a good example. I can hardly wait for new discovery from Maurice.

[Old___Slow]

Bob(bobandcat)

We all pick up great ideas from others. In your post you mentioned using insulation from a oven. Wow, that is new to me. I used reg house insulation once and found it melted next the the manifold. That's when I checked the temp at the manifold and found 400 degree plus. 'The tip' on using oven insulation sounds correct. Got more?

[MrWizard]

I vote for the exhaust wrap, a heat shield would be an added factor, but the exhaust wrap will keep the heat in the pipe so it goes out the muffler and not in the compartment

[bobandcat]

mauricedorris wrote:
...I can see how heat from the 3/4 inch exhaust is going to be a problem. I am thinking of getting some aluminum flashing and putting some sort of heat shield between the generator and the exhaust....

Maurice,
You definitely should insulate the pipe from the engine through the floor of the enclosure.Take a quick look at My $500.00 almost silent generator with pic.&db readings. You will see Brad's high temp exhaust pipe insulation and my hard board shield for ideas.