3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[So]

jmaotto wrote:
I have the same Champion generator. Tried it on a Lincoln wire feed welder. As soon as I tried to strike an arc, it almost died. It could not take the surge.

It'd be genuinely helpful if you would tell us the make and model of both units you were coupling. And was the welder 120V or 240V?

By the numbers, a good condition 3500 Watt Champ should easily handle any 120Vac load which is rated for 120Vac/20A household circuit. Mine does.

[jmaotto]

I have the same Champion generator. Tried it on a Lincoln wire feed welder. As soon as I tried to strike an arc, it almost died. It could not take the surge.

[So]

Before I plugged my small 120V Hobart Handler welder into the Champ, I pulled the control panel to tap the 30A RV plug. I noticed that the 120v single receptacle was already tapped directly off the RV receptacle so I left it as-is and buttoned it up. The first image depicts plug voltage (125Vac) under load (welder set to max). The Champ immediately accepted the load without much undue strain. I have little doubt the Champ will easily accommodate an additional 200-300W simultaneously. Although I'd prefer to verify winding temps before continuous run times are attempted.



For you welders - I'm right handed, but was stirring the stinger with my left... while watching the Fluke through the camera with my right. Sample was 1/4" thick mild steel



I'm currently running the Champ w/800w resistive load. After an hour or two, I'll perform a compression check to establish the compression pressure differences after the modifications.

[camperdave]

I've had my 3000w Champion for a few years now, but it has sat unused in my garage for over a year until last weekend. I pulled it out, dumped in some new gas, and it started on the first pull! Sweet! A big puff of smoke on startup, then it settled right in to a nice smooth idle. Took it camping with me and ran it two days in a row, all day long for the air conditioner. It sat in the back of my van in 100 degree temps (probably hotter than that in the back of the van!) and never complained.

I mostly use my much quieter Champion 2000w these days, but it's nice to have this one as a backup at home, and for the rare occasion I'll need to run the AC in the trailer.

As it was humming along in the heat, I couldn't help but think about this thread and wonder if it was still going. And here it is, still going strong!

[Old___Slow]

We have now passed in Tech, the OLD 3000w Chinese Champion with the NEW Chinese Champion 3100 Inverter, its is also called a Genset.

Out with the old and in with the new and up-to-date info' ~ Bring on the next million visits.

Need more info' right here folks on the NEW Champion Chinese Genset.

Today is 'party day' Over one million visits to "3000W Chinese Gensets Info' "

Is this the all time record for one thread?

O$S
Floyd

[69_Avion]

So wrote:
First time poster.

Researching 3kW-4kW gensets led me to this unbelievable thread. I've sampled maybe 60-70 pages so far and I'm still amazed at the vast details submitted.

Briefly...

I do own and reside in, a 28ft. conversion, but my main interest in a 3kW AC machine is primarily to feed my 120V/25A Hobart Handler, a 1944 South Bend lathe and drill press in remote areas - and if need be, a backup for any family member that needs to use it.

As a veteran and factory trained Honda Power Products Tech (in generators, no less), I naturally favored Hondas. But I'm not inclined to recklessly discard potential value when I see it - especially when funds are limited. I had $500 to spend and living in a semi-remote region offered precious few options, both new and used.

Then, just last week, a 4 YO 46540 Champion hit my local Craigslist - which ultimately led me here. The Champ has been under the loving care of the original owner and allegedly has less than one hour use. I believe it - it looks absolutely pristine. We fired it up and briefly load tested it,.. and $275 exchanged hands.



From my Honda days, I have a nice stash of used GX engines - all are runners, some better than others. So... a few mods are planned.

1. electric start (I have 2 complete GX160 setups)

2. Prep for LPG (I plan to pull the Champ's head and install an 18cc GX160 head. Numbers show about 1.5 increase in compression ratio. I also have a couple of very early 14cc heads if I need to go even higher). It's also important to note that I'm at 3700 elevation.

3. Piecemeal LPG install. (I already have the KN demand reg, so fabbing an adapter and plumbing it won't be an issue}.

4. Install Volts/Amps digital readout and maybe an EGT probe.

5. Build a lightweight and portable sound shell.

I'll try to maintain details (and pics) as I proceed.

Again, what a fantastic resource this thread is... and continues to be. Kudos to all who have unselfishly contributed.

-kenny-

I can't wait to see your results. Please post some pictures while you are making the changes.

[Old___Slow]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Get well soon Professor Randy and let's have a one million party.

thanks, JC and jlaustin for keeping us in the know.


O$S
Floyd

We need a lottery.

Which will be first - ten thousand posts or the million views?.:@

Maybe two parties..:B

~

Lets have the first one today.

JC, we lived to see the day.


O$S
Floyd

[So]

Rolling Condo wrote:
Kenny,
Here is a portable sound enclosure purposely designed for the Champion.
Supergen tent

Interesting & simple approach, thank you. They claim rain-free generators, but I'm dubious... given the flat roof with holes & zipLock access. It may indeed be worth a C-note, but I'm habitually geared towards the DIY approach.

-kenny-

[Rolling_Condo]

Kenny,
Here is a portable sound enclosure purposely designed for the Champion.
Supergen tent

[So]

Has anyone seen or posted this?....

Standby Generator Efficiency Testing (3-4kW)

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146086.0.html

Generators tested:

Champion 46539
Honda EU3000iS
Honda EM4000SX
Yamaha EF3000iES
Generac GP3250
Yanmar YDG3700 (diesel)

"We got hold of a Champion Model 46539 and tested it under the same conditions as the others. The Champion is built in China but it's a very impressive little generator. It beat all the gas units, including the Honda inverter gen, for efficiency at all but the lightest load."

[So]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
"So" - -
IIRC, The Prof has done most of what you are planning - maybe with the exception of swapping "genuine" Honda parts.

I suspected as much within the first posts of his I read. Not unlike an addicting novel, I sat, for the better part of 6 hours last night, glued the monitor... flipping page after page of this thread. It got to the point where I was bypassing many posts... except his and one or two others. Clearly, the talent & wisdom among many posters here is truly inspiring.

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Besides the Prof's silencing mods in this thread......go here - -

"My $500. almost silent generator with pic & db readings"

Interesting. I noticed where he used conduit for the exhaust. Works fine, but I'm curious if he removed the zinc coating on the outside before he wrapped it? Especially considering the installation is tucked inside his MH compartment. All one needs to do to remove it, is dip the tube in SnoBowl cleaner... OUTSIDE.

I was in Lowes today, in-the-hunt for a TT-30 adapter. Zip,.. and when I rounded the end of the L&G isle headed for the door, I nearly tripped (literally) over a fresh looking 3kW Champ sitting on the floor. Attached was a large "Sale" tag which read, "Closeout, $250". This was the newer rig with the ominous curved 'wings' around the fuel tank. A return perhaps?... dunno, but it irked me no-end because they adamantly denied having one when I called 24 hrs earlier, looking a viable candidate. Oh well, I'm not disappointed with my purchase.

-kenny-

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Old & Slow wrote:
Get well soon Professor Randy and let's have a one million party.

thanks, JC and jlaustin for keeping us in the know.


O$S
Floyd

We need a lottery.

Which will be first - ten thousand posts or the million views?.:@

Maybe two parties..:B

~

[ol_Bombero-JC]

"So" - -
IIRC, The Prof has done most of what you are planning - maybe with the exception of swapping "genuine" Honda parts.

All -or most- of which are "somewhere" in this thread.
Sooner of later he will chime in here.....'cause he can't resist, LOL!

Besides the Prof's silencing mods in this thread......go here - -

"My $500. almost silent generator with pic & db readings"

~

BTW - thanks FLOYD!
Good to hear from you - and hope all is going well.
JC

~

[So]

Kirk,

Based on the Professor's past input (and obvious experience with the Champ), I'm 'assuming' many of the GX parts will interchange. But I cannot confirm until I get greasy. The parts swapping possibilities is one of the reasons why I jumped on the 46540. But again, It's clearly an assumption on my part having never torn a Champion down. We'll find out within the coming weeks.

I'm not looking to increase the HP above factory specs. Boosting the CR in my case is to better exploit propane's higher octane in an attempt to regain some of the HP losses associated with the conversion and the higher elevation. If you are much below about 3000 ft. elevation and burning gasoline, I'd discourage CR increases - especially if you anticipate pulling rated loads in warmer temps.

A well designed genset includes matching the generator (alternator) to the prime mover. When the inexperienced user spends time with a generator, they usually recognize the 'overloading' symptoms - i.e. the engine grunts & strains pulling the load. So if you increase the engine's HP much above factory rated, it becomes vastly easier to produce $ smoke from the generator's windings... without warning.

[kirkadie]

Kenny,
I'm almost a year into owning similar unit, and only 4 hours on the hobbs just doing regular runs for upkeep.
Question, will changing heads mean an enough increase in hp to increase what I can power when the lights go out, or just less stress on the engine? I ran a seperate circuit in my house for very basic needs like fridge, boiler pump, and some lights, so I don't really need to do anything, but more is better, so... will that honda head fit my champion without me doing milling or other highly technical stuff?
Or am I one the wrong page for layman upgrades entirely?
Kirk