3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

skyzoomer wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
watch the video, he put the generator in the walled in back yard, like many people would..

I can't find a link to the video. Could you post one or refer me to the post that has the link?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_247164640.html

los agnles cbs 2/ kcal ch 9 video window on right side click the big arrow

[Oldfordman]

WaltinColo wrote:
My window a/c only recycles indoor air...

And there are models that bring in fresh outside air....

[WaltinColo]

In that vid the gen looks to be atleast 10-15 foot away from the house.... and they still got poisoned?
That sure seems like a long distance to travel, through walls, to get to you...
the air must have been perfectly still to make that journey...
My window a/c only recycles indoor air...

How do people with gens built into their RV, with the exhaust pipe not more then 6 inches from the coach, survive more then 2 hours?

[skyzoomer]

MrWizard wrote:
watch the video, he put the generator in the walled in back yard, like many people would..

I can't find a link to the video. Could you post one or refer me to the post that has the link?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

[Old___Slow]

Broccoli1 wrote:
FLOYD-

Lost me too:@

What did you read into cnsayre's post?

I read, cnsayre is a PhD and he knows CO is dangerous.

[Old___Slow]

toprudder wrote:
The information I have found regarding CO being lighter than air also says that it quickly mixes with the air around it. IOW, CO is not likely to "layer" or stratify near the ceiling.

Also, most mounting instructions for CO detectors state to mount near eye level, unless it is a combination smoke and CO detector, which must be mounted on/near the ceiling.

Bob R.

toprudder-
Bob,

I do have one Combo just bought and installed after your recent Post concerning CO. I will now install one more at a 4' level. On the subject of CO. Question. Has anyone reading this post measured (if possible) the amount of CO coming from a Champion say VS a Honda or other portables? I now am interested to know also the amount of CO from a 4kw Onan or Generac. If these are good questions. I have owned five factory installed gensets and to the best of my memory there was more exhaust volume coming from those units than from my Champion.


Floyd
O&S

[MrWizard]

watch the video, he put the generator in the walled in back yard, like many people would..

BUT there was a big window ? A/C unit sticking out of the back of the house

MY guess is the A/C unit sucked in the CO with the outside air and circulated it thru the house, these units are designed to allow for recirculate or fresh air venting, unlike RV units which have NO fresh air venting, unfortunately, the fresh air contained the genny exhaust.

also that was remodeled larger house on lot that used to contain a smaller house, there wasn't that much back yard, really more like a court yard, also very common here is SoCal.

the genny was in a walled in environment, the rear A/C should have been vent closed and NOT used, other A/c units should have been used.

[Broccoli1]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Wished I had looked for the generator & CO in the newspaper [sooner].
Sometimes there's more details. However, in the "tallys" it briefly
did say there had been five victims at one location with CO poisoning.

cnsayre - good analysis - assuming someone didn't move it - it appeared
to be slightly downhill from the house in the background. [TV coverage].

[I would guess it was in the location "where operated" - Emergency folks
would shut it down if running, but leave it where it was for an investigation].

During the heat wave there was little or no air movement in So. CA.
JC

This story?

[toprudder]

The information I have found regarding CO being lighter than air also says that it quickly mixes with the air around it. IOW, CO is not likely to "layer" or stratify near the ceiling.

Also, most mounting instructions for CO detectors state to mount near eye level, unless it is a combination smoke and CO detector, which must be mounted on/near the ceiling.

Bob R.

[Broccoli1]

FLOYD-

Lost me too:@

What did you read into cnsayre's post?

[cnsayre]

Old & Slow wrote:



cnsayre:

Thank you for your contribution.



I feel your intentions are all good, however, the above post causes me great concern. I have learned on this thread the following among other items.

One:

In a RV there is no way to make a (rod) ground. Thus a need for a floating or natural ground. The RV to be treated as a safe appliance but add GFI's for safety.

Two:

LPG moves lower, thus the need for a LPG sensor at floor level.

Three:

CO rises, thus the need for several CO sensors ceiling height. Also be vary careful with the CO discharge from your genset. This is of MAJOR concern to all of us. I believe all RV factory installed gensets are suspect.

Anything else?

Floyd
O&S

Sorry. You lost me.

I hadn't meant for that post to include RV usage, as the poster I quoted was looking at a "home use" situation (what with the using it in a carport setup).

That said, I didn't mention grounding. And trust me, I would (and should!) be the last person to talk to about that. An electrical engineer I'm not. So if I gave the impression that I was talking about grounding, I'm sorry. It as unintentional.

As for LPG, you're correct. LPG is more dense than air (although if it's escaping as a gas, the "L" part of the abbreviation makes no sense... 😉 )so that gas would collect in low-lying levels. I thought they always added "stink" to that stuff, too, so that it wsa easily smelled. Is it possible to get that without the odorant added?

But again, I'm not sure how we wound up discussing LPG as I never mentioned it.

CO does rise, and that's what I posted about.

But that does make me wonder... I got my generator for occassional power outages (which happen quite frequently in Atlanta thunderstorms). We have a large, relatively level portion of roof. That would probably be the best place for the generator. Although my wife would kill me if I hoisted it up there and crawled out through a window to fire it up...

cnsayre

[Old___Slow]

cnsayre wrote:

skyzoomer wrote:

Hmmm, looks like distance is not that effective if the wind is blowing the fumes toward the house. Maybe an exhaust stack with the top of the stack above the roof is the only safe way to go? Definitely got me wondering.

Long, long time lurker on this thread, and I'm finally going to stick my head out and add to it.

Without trying to sound too full of myself, I'm a PhD chemist, so I know a little about chemicals. 😉

CO is lighter than air. It wants to rise. Depending on what that family's yard terrain is like, how much wind there was, etc., the CO may have "risen" up a slope and into the house.

A raised stack is a great idea.

I was doing some math regarding the generator in the car port with 12' open sides, trying to figure out much air would need to be "mixed" with the CO to bring it down to safe levels, but then I just smacked myself. With CO, it's better to be safe than to be very sorry.

cnsayre

PS. Oh yeah, I also own a Champion Generator.

cnsayre:

Thank you for your contribution.



I feel your intentions are all good, however, the above post causes me great concern. I have learned on this thread the following among other items.

One:

In a RV there is no way to make a (rod) ground. Thus a need for a floating or natural ground. The RV to be treated as a safe appliance but add GFI's for safety.

Two:

LPG moves lower, thus the need for a LPG sensor at floor level.

Three:

CO rises, thus the need for several CO sensors ceiling height. Also be vary careful with the CO discharge from your genset. This is of MAJOR concern to all of us. I believe all RV factory installed gensets are suspect.

Anything else?

Floyd
O&S

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Wished I had looked for the generator & CO in the newspaper [sooner].
Sometimes there's more details. However, in the "tallys" it briefly
did say there had been five victims at one location with CO poisoning.

cnsayre - good analysis - assuming someone didn't move it - it appeared
to be slightly downhill from the house in the background. [TV coverage].

[I would guess it was in the location "where operated" - Emergency folks
would shut it down if running, but leave it where it was for an investigation].

During the heat wave there was little or no air movement in So. CA.
JC

[Oldfordman]

skyzoomer wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
One of the stories is/was of a family using a portable generator due to a power outage - and being overcome by high concentrations of CO.

The coverage showed the generator in the yard - quite a distance from
the house! Of course, there's no way to tell if that was the location
when it was running or not. [Victims apparently survived].

Hmmm, looks like distance is not that effective if the wind is blowing the fumes toward the house. Maybe an exhaust stack with the top of the stack above the roof is the only safe way to go? Definitely got me wondering.

Here in Washington State, during the last big power outage, people were running the generators in carports and in garages with no concern for the CO. Multiple fatalities in several incidents.

The main issue is to make sure there is sufficient distance and GOOD air circulation. Not too many people are going to build 25' exhaust stacks to get the exhaust above the rooflines of multi-story houses unless it is a fixed installation.

[cnsayre]

skyzoomer wrote:

Hmmm, looks like distance is not that effective if the wind is blowing the fumes toward the house. Maybe an exhaust stack with the top of the stack above the roof is the only safe way to go? Definitely got me wondering.

Long, long time lurker on this thread, and I'm finally going to stick my head out and add to it.

Without trying to sound too full of myself, I'm a PhD chemist, so I know a little about chemicals. 😉

CO is lighter than air. It wants to rise. Depending on what that family's yard terrain is like, how much wind there was, etc., the CO may have "risen" up a slope and into the house.

A raised stack is a great idea.

I was doing some math regarding the generator in the car port with 12' open sides, trying to figure out much air would need to be "mixed" with the CO to bring it down to safe levels, but then I just smacked myself. With CO, it's better to be safe than to be very sorry.

cnsayre

PS. Oh yeah, I also own a Champion Generator.