3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[cicamper]

For those of you with the Champion 'RV Ready' 46540, how often do have to add oil to it? I was able to verify that the low oil protection circuit works on mine. After 3 days of 95+ heat this 4th of July weekend, it did cut itself off. I know that you are to check each time you start it, but I ran it constantly for almost 70 hours except for fuel adds. On the morning of the 3rd day it shut down. I added about .2 liter of oil, and it started right up. Is it possible that oil is evaporating due to the high heat? I am REALLY hoping that I don't have a reject here. Also, it does not smoke - no visible signs of burning.

[Ugly_Dwarf]

Bruce,

Thanks for the idea. Yup, I bought a 'heavy duty' dog bone adaptor from my local RV sales/parts shop yesterday on my way home from work. All the tests yesterday were using the new one instead of the older adaptor that I got when I bought the trailer used last year.

I may buy a second generator after I return the first one, but I don't know if Costco can repackage and resell them after I put oil/gas in (even if they're working properly), and I hate to make them eat the cost of two generators if the problem is truely on the trailer side of things. The return policy is so generous, I hate to take advantage for fear it will go away.

I think I first need to find someone in my neighborhood who has a generator and see if I can power the trailer from that. Worst case I might be able to 'rent one for 5 minutes' from a local rental yard.

At least I was able to open up my 1500w power inverter and kill the 'discharge alert buzzer', so I can make coffee this weekend off a deep cylce battery without that annoying noise. Capt. Caffine rides again!!!

[Ready_ToRoll]

Ugly Dwarf,

Before you give up, have you tried using a different 15A-30A adapter? I don't have any reason to think that this is the problem, except that it is a inexpensive possibility to try. Maybe it acts differently with the house plugs because of a different type of ground.

Good luck! I bought the same exact generator a couple of months ago. Even joined Costco just bacause of their return policy. Lucky me, mine works perfectly. Runs A/C and microwave at the same time.

Bruce

[Ugly_Dwarf]

A quick update...

Last night I fired up the generator and ripped through a thick piece of redwood with no problem.

I confirmed that when set to 120, the voltmeter showed ~120. When the switch was set to 240, it showed ~240.

I then turned off the breakers on the pannel, unplugged the refridgerator and attempted to power up the trailer. This time it bogged down (as usuaal), but it popped the breakers on the genset.

It sounds like a problem with the trailer wiring, but it seems odd that it works on shore power in a campground and off the plugs at my house.

For the short term, it sounds as if I'll only have A/C when on shore power.

On the upside, my wife won't have to be 'one of those people with a generator running in the campground'... on the downside, I won't be one of those people sitting in an air conditioned box when it's > 100 degrees. 😞

Thanks all for your suggestions and help.

[AZDesertRat]

I would look for the Champion RV model at Checker. I don't have the new RV model but bought my Champion in November and Checker price matched a unit from Pep Boys and beat it by 5% so my 3500w Champion was only $238.

[RokNDmax]

Man, I read about 50 pages of this thread. I'm sold !

Is this the right one though ?

http://pepboys.shoplocal.com/pepboys/default.aspx?action=detail&storeid=2315031&rapid=0&pagenumber=0...

Very good price right now $229.

If not, please, a fresh link to a good one at a good price.

Thanks in advance.

Edited to make link - MELM

[Ugly_Dwarf]

Mr. Wizard,

Thanks for the tip. I was thinking about it as I typed up my last message and believe the output didn't change when I switched settings. While I didn't think much of it yesterday, it seemed odd when I tried to articulate what I'd seen.

I will check the voltmeter on each setting tonight and confirm. If it has to go back, I'm glad I got it at Costco.

So much for me getting back to work, eh? I guess I'm an addict to the net. This time I mean it. Really.

[MrWizard]

to ugly dwarf

according to that drawing

yes it should be delivering full power to the outlet ,in the 120 mode

if possible look at the back of the duplex recp to confrim the connection between the rd& brwn wires by the copper tab

and the same thing forthe blue & white wires by the copper tab

the switch doesn't physically connect the wires ..

it connects to recp and the, tabs on the recp make the parallel connection

for full power if these tabs are gone, it will 1/2 power on each half of the duplex

the voltmeter on the front of the genny, should be accurate enough for this type of problem

just run the genny and see if the meter says 120 or 240

shut it off flip the mode switch and start it up and check again

it should read the other voltage

compare the switch position to the meter reading

if the meter doesn't change something is wired wrong in the genny

take it back for another one

[Ugly_Dwarf]

One last thing before I get back to work... It hasn't been asked, but I figured to try to check off one more question:

I have plugged this trailer into a campgound's shore power two trips ago (RV plug, no adaptor) and everything worked.

Thanks all.

[Ugly_Dwarf]

professor95 wrote:

toprudder wrote:
Perhaps isolating the ground *** for troubleshooting purposes only *** would be worth trying.

Bob just turned on a light in the back of my head (a dim one).

Are you absolutely positive you are pushing 110-120 VAC out of the generator and not 220-240 VAC?

You see, (for example) if you have a resistive load of 10 ohms and apply 120 volts your current will be 12 amps (E/R=I). But, if we apply 240 volts to the same resistance our current will rise to 24 amps! (240/10 = 24). Under that condition the generator would bog down immediately.

Just double check the voltage at the outlet you are using to be sure we don't have a backwards wired generator.

I tried switching from 120 to 240 via a three posistion switch, (110 / off / 240) on the generator. As soon as I went to off (and then 240), the generator stopped bogging down and the ampmeter said it was delivering power again, but I suspected this was because power was now being routed to the unused 240 plug. I verified no power was going to the trailer through the 110 plug I had the adapter in.

How would I test the output of the plugs? I've got my ohmmeter, but am more than a little cautious of sticking those pos/neg probes into an outlet that could shock the bejesus out of me.

[MrWizard]

A/C & RV ready update

YEAH it's WORKING

we spendt the 4th visiting with friends at their residence

plugged the MH into his 50amp 120 shore circuit, and turned on the A/C

it took 5 or 10 seconds for it to get going, then worked all day

so this morning after reaching our destenation I fired up the genny, flip the switch and the A/C came right on, the genny hardly even twitched

I'm guessing that after a year of NON-use the compressor was stuck

and with a listed 63 amp LRA full load " not stuck' condition

there just wasn't enough juice to unstick it

it's the OLD adage 'use it or lose it'

excerise it at least once a month

i'm still going to order the SPPP6e and install it , as a percaution

in fact I might actually need it

it's only 80 degrees right now NOT the 102 from last Saturday


checked it again during ssupper time, 90 outside, parked in the shade

turned it on while cooking to cool the MH, set the controller to let compressor cycle on-off, the generator is working great, you can hear get a little lounder, but it doesn't bog or even burp

I do have switch problems, it only operating in ONE mode NOT all 3 modes, in the other modes it does nothing at all NO fan NO loading

looks like I'm in the market for a replacement control switch

or a schematic drawing so i can design a toggle switch panel

[Ugly_Dwarf]

Hopefully this displays the wiring diagram:



If not, anyone should be able to view a smaller version here:

http://members11.clubphoto.com/steve1058410/4530111/owner-10c8.phtml

If not, I'm going to hang up my computer techie hat and go home to cry.

Regarding the water heater, I believe (I've only used it once and don't recall for sure) the water is heated with gas and only uses electricity for the pump. I'll verify that when I get home tonight. The pump is not on and the battery has not drained in the last two days... though I guess this would only happen with a significant 12v draw, and the genset is trying to deliver 120v.

I didn't get a chance to use the saw last night, but I've got a big piece of 3" thick scrap redwood in mind to rip tonight after work.

I do not have (or know how to use) an Amp Clamp. I do have an ohmmeter... well, I have a little box from Radio Shack I can use to test for electrical power using red and black probes. (nice technical explanation, eh? Did I mention I'm electrically challenged?).

One thing I noticed (when I tried to power up after throwing the breakers in the TT to off) was that the panel in the breaker box is labeled "45 Amp". I don't know if that is normal or if it means I need a different (dogbone) adaptor.

Thanks again for all the ideas and continued support.

[MrWizard]

professor95 wrote:

UglyDwarf wrote:
It doesn't wait to bog down when I try to start the AC, it does it when I just plug it in.

Very interesting. Do you have an electric heating element in your water heater? If so, could it possibly be on?

Obviously, there is a parasitic load in the trailer we are overlooking. Do you by chance have access to an "Amp Clamp". This is an inductive amp meter that just clamps around one of the two wires supplying power to the camper.

Also, the link you provided for the schematic doesn't work for us. Please try again.

things like the saw are Isolated loads ( no other wiring in the cicuit )

I would start looking at the trailer wiring

to me it sounds like some place where the neutral and ground are switched, or the neutral is open and that circuit is loading thru the ground

try turning off all the circuit breakers, and unpluging every 120 appliance ( unplug the fridge cord & WH-hotrod & converter )

turn on the generator and plug in the cord

absolutly nothing should happen

if it bogs , wires are shorted on the input circuit somewhere

if it doesn't bog, turn on ONE CB at a time until it bogs

that will be you bad circuit

might even be a screw thru wiring in the wall , a real PITA to trace and fix

I'm surprised your not tripping a GFI some place when plugging into shore power

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:
Perhaps isolating the ground *** for troubleshooting purposes only *** would be worth trying.

Bob just turned on a light in the back of my head (a dim one).

Are you absolutely positive you are pushing 110-120 VAC out of the generator and not 220-240 VAC?

You see, (for example) if you have a resistive load of 10 ohms and apply 120 volts your current will be 12 amps (E/R=I). But, if we apply 240 volts to the same resistance our current will rise to 24 amps! (240/10 = 24). Under that condition the generator would bog down immediately.

Just double check the voltage at the outlet you are using to be sure we don't have a backwards wired generator.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:

UglyDwarf wrote:
It doesn't wait to bog down when I try to start the AC, it does it when I just plug it in.

Very interesting. Do you have an electric heating element in your water heater? If so, could it possibly be on?

Obviously, there is a parasitic load in the trailer we are overlooking. Do you by chance have access to an "Amp Clamp". This is an inductive amp meter that just clamps around one of the two wires supplying power to the camper.

Also, the link you provided for the schematic doesn't work for us. Please try again.

The only possible thing I can think of is the neutral and hot may be swapped somewhere.

Perhaps isolating the ground *** for troubleshooting purposes only *** would be worth trying.

Check the neutral/hot voltages at the generator connector to make sure it is wired correctly. Connect an ohmmeter to the camper's power cord to see if there is continuity between neutral and ground. There should not be, but maybe someone bonded them in the camper's power panel.