3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

i'll go past there on monday ( if i get the chance ) and take another look at the spelling

the unit is out of stock untill their wharehouse load comes in on wed..

when i plan to buy either that one or champion

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
the unit has jaingdong ? on the exhaust and other places, seems identical to the power-wise, recp's in the genny head, switch for 120/240 no meter

I'm probably repeating what you already know, but JiangDong is the outfit that built the original ELM3000 and currently builds the Cummings, Homier and Harbor Freight 6.5 HP/3000 watt units. Supposedly, they have a license from Honda to build legal copies of the GX200 engine. They are a pretty big outfit among the Chinese power equipment manufacturers and build minibikes, mopeds, water pumps, and gocarts as well. JiangDong built generators seem to have a pretty good track record on the forum. I only remember 2 postings that have indicated problems, and those were with original ELM3000's

I have not seen any JiangDong units with the recp's in the genny head though. All I have seen are on a separate panel on the "front" side of the frame. Costco was selling a unit like you describe a few months back, but nobody could confirmed it was a JD unit.

[MrWizard]

oh i've been lurking, just havent had much to add to the questions being answered

loved your post on 'sound' tests , campground readings & driveway box readings

the reasons for the champion policy are completely understanadable, and my 1200 has worked great

the local kragens had 2 of the c46540 'rv ready' on Saturday

but since i was doing comparisons, i checked at OSH

the unit has jaingdong ? on the exhaust and other places, seems identical to the power-wise, recp's in the genny head, switch for 120/240 no meter

rating says 27.5 amps 3000 cont watts 3500 surge

it's the one year store exchange, that i find attractive ( if confirmed )

I know this is a 'store/chain' thing not the mfg, but since sears owns 80% of OSH , I like that kind of quality assurance

sound rating is the same 67db at 7 meters

the RV ready champion is a little fanncier, but the OSH warranty replacement idea is the deal breaker

if it's not true , then i will buy the champion

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
......i like this a whole lot more than the standard policy of having to call champion or whoever for authorization or service

First off, George, it is great to see you back on the forum. I've "sorta' missed you" 🙂

What Champion does if you need warranty service is refer you to an "authorized" CPE service center. I have no idea where these are located. I have also been told that should an authorized CPE repair center not be accessable, it is possible that they would authorize repairs elsewhere. If your CPE unit cannot be repaired, you will be given an exchange unit. These are the reasons they cite for calling tech support for authorization if repair is needed during the warranty period. This is all in writing in the manual and not hearsay from a salesman.

Another contributor on this forum has shared that Costco also offers an "in store" exchange on their generators for at least a year, maybe longer.

I am very happy with the Champion I am now using on my camper.

[MrWizard]

bump

[MrWizard]

update and quick question

OSH has the allpower 3500/3000 for the same $329 price

the 120/240 version, no meter, NOT RV ready

but the unit has a sticker on it that says one year warranty

i ask the salesman to check with the manager, he came back and said one year

if it breaks, or there is a problem return it..to the store, for replacement or refund ( if replacement not available )

has anybody bought a generator from OSH, or other motorized power tool, can this policy be confirmed

i like this a whole lot more than the standard policy of having to call champion or whoever for authorization or service

[MrWizard]

Tonka Truck wrote:
Good Grief, that one may have a mech. problem causing noise. My new Champion C46540 is slightly louder than my Nikota I've used for several years. Most of that comes from a rat-a-tat-tat from the pull starter area. My Nikota would be louder from that area than the muffler area too, but not much.

We just took the C46540 out for a week in the mountains, dry camping in our 23' travel trailer. It ran everything off the RV plug. I sometimes couldn't tell if it was running or not at the distance of my Land Line from the trailer.

I'm looking for brackets next, I pulled mine out of the box and broke it in.

that is the exact model i just came from looking, at over at Kragens

within 24 hrs it will likely be setting inside my generator bay

the bay has a slide out tray for service the genset

which means i can open the door and slide this one for max cooling

or leave it inside the sound insulated compartment which is open at the bottom and the door is vented

extending the exhaust will not be a problem

[professor95]

Norm and Trey,

You will find a link here for an early web page I created on Comcast. Once there, click on PHOTOS. It shows my initial efforts to obtain sound abatement using an exhaust extension made of EMT running up the ladder on the back of the camper and some open fiberglass batting. It did work to improve the noise level. This was the experiment that resulted in my discovery that the exhaust was not the major source of noise on this family of generators.

As far as temperatures inside an enclosure...... I do not know what the upper operating limits are for the engine and fuel system. But I do know that anything over 194 degrees F (90 C) will cause permanent damage to the wiring inside the generator. Just to be safe, I would work to keep these temperatures at or below 167 degrees F (75 C). It is not just engine heat that causes a temp rise in the wiring, but the flow of current in the conductors. So, be careful, on a hot day with the AC running these temps could potentially soar above safe levels - maybe even without an enclosure!

Since the muffler on these units is right next to the generator assembly, I agree that it would be a good idea to move the muffler to another location when placing the genny in an enclosure. 1" EMT works well for exhaust pipe and is available at any home store selling electrical supplies. Some welding, brazing or silver brazing may be necessary to get what you need. Tin/Lead Soldering WILL NOT WORK. Solder will flow like water once the exhaust gets hot.

There are at least two simple ways to monitor temps in an enclosure. The simplest is a non-contact infrared themometer. I use one of these all the time on my RV to check wheel bearings, water heater temp, grill temp, oven temps, etc. Harbor Freight Tools has these on sale almost every month for $50. The other is a simple remote digital meat themometer. Big Lots has sold these in the past for about $6. They have a 6' flexible extension probe and are also great to tell when your RV water is hot enough to shower (stick the probe under the insulation next to the tank, run the metal shielded silicon jacketed wire to the meter in a convenient location inside the camper).

Lots of good ideas coming in on the forum for reducing noise. I hope we will see more, especially those that have been actually built and tested.

[Norman1]

We picked up a Wen 3500 from PepBoys before our excursion to the Darlington NASCAR race based on this forum. I am more than pleased with it's operation. It ran our 13.5 BTU a/c without issue, I tried running the microwave at the same time...it worked but you could tell it wasn't happy. I was a bit concerned about the noise level but compared to the others around us including 2 that were built into motor homes ours was the most quiet.

I like your ideas about enclosing it to reduce the noise level. Did anyone check the temp inside the enclosure though? A solution amy be to get 2 12v fans from a stereo store and connect them to the 12v on the generator. That would provide some air movement while it was running. This would also help on reducing the gas fumes that may build up.

Has anyone tried attaching an exhaust pipe extention onto the muffler outlet and running it up? I was going to try that but wasn't sure if that would cause too much back pressure on the engine.

[durasmack]

Professor,
I made an enclosure for my powerwise out of 7/16 OSB lined with 1" Sturdyboard aluminum coated insulation. I put a 50cfm exhaust fan on the top of one side and a 6x12 vent on the other side near the bottom. I am concerned that there is not enough air moving through this configuration to keep the generator cool

I was thinking about moving the muffler outside the enclosure. What temps should I be getting? I was getting 130* on the air exhaust fan.

-Trey

[Bahamaboy]

Professor

I did something very much like you did only I used 1 inch thick fiberglass duct board (Used to make AC ducts its very light semi rigid and cheap)one thing I added was I cut a piece of the same duct board and fashioned a free standing A-frame (3 feet high 4 feet wide) out of it stood that about 18 inches away from the open end of the enclosure with one of the flat sides facing the Gen and this helped reduce the noise from there greatly I think what is happening is the sound is hitting the A-frame and is then bounced up away from peoples ears. I also found that by sitting the gen on a bit of old Shag carpet that I folded to make double think helped over the gen sitting on the cement floor. I don't know how much it quieted my gen as I don't have a sound meter but do know that with it running on my balcony (Used mainly as home backup generator after hurricanes)with my sliding glass door closed I hardly notice it at all where without the box it was quite annoying Hope this helps some

Keith

[professor95]

I see no reason to enclose the top, except to protect the unit from the elements. Sound going out of the top should not be a problem, unless it is placed under something that can reflect the noise.

I think your idea is worth further study and will try some measurements on this end to see what the results are. Right now I strongly suspect the metal gas tank acts as a transducer for the mechanical noise generated by the engine.

It also just occurred to me that I might take my "mechanics stethoscope" and probe around the entire assembly. It is great for pinpointing bad bearings and engine ticks and should help in isolating noise points on these generators.

[toprudder]

I have thought about an enclosure (more complicated than this, I must admit! ) but would enclose all four sides. It would be possible to add ducting to the motor cooling inlet and possibly the generator head that would allow the cooling air to reach the necessary areas, but have baffles to prevent the noise from coming out.

I see no reason to enclose the top, except to protect the unit from the elements. Sound going out of the top should not be a problem, unless it is placed under something that can reflect the noise.

[professor95]

Professor, I like your solution and would like to propose an alternative to just doubling the thickness of the foam board. Two layers of foam, but separated by say 1/2" standing frame members between the layers. Picture a normal wall ..... .

Your response is exactly what I hoped would follow. George Polya would be proud of your initiative to come up with additional methods of approaching "a problem" based on alternative thinking models. If you were a student in one of my freshman Problem Solving classes, you would have earned your first "A" for your response. Hopefully, some of the other folks on this forum will brainstorm along the same lines and share their ideas or experiments. I am anxious to see what others come up with.

Remember, all I did was use materials that I had on hand. Even as I was assembling the model I was thinking of methods to reduce the sound at the open end without using closed panels or air circulation fans. I do have a few ideas to try there later.

As for the Chaqmpion vs. PowerPro, either one would serve you well. I stop short of a specific endorsement on any one product. But, I am extremely impressed with the technical support, warranty and overall performance of the Champion Power Products line. This is somewhat "unusual" with the proliferation of Chinese products freely distributed by entrepreneurial importers looking to make a quick buck on the sales end and not giving a flip about service and support after the sale.

As for a sound abatement enclosure alternative, I just came from PedSmart and couldn't help but notice the medimum size plastic dog houses they had on sale. Hummm.......

[dash8wrench]

Professor, I like your solution and would like to propose an alternative to just doubling the thickness of the foam board. Two layers of foam, but separated by say 1/2" standing frame members between the layers. Picture a normal wall with drywall installed. The dead space between the layers should go a long way to deadening the sound levels. Again, storage might be a problem unless one was to make the box up and then apply a couple of layers of fiberglass to weather proof and reinforce it and leave it installed on the generator. Make the end to be open hinged with a small latch to keep it closed during transport.

This foam board is easily fastened together using a hot glue gun. Use the low temp glue sticks and run a bead along the joints. I'm waiting to either get one of the champions form parts america (hate the shipping costs with Advance Auto near by, but they can't order it) or my next trip to the Shore and get one of the Pep Boys models.