3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Dubman]

I have a question.. In other forum topics there have been some negative things said about these generators.. I have been using my ELM3000 for 3 weeks now with no problems besides a poorly designed outlet which I have replaced. Can anyone tell me if they have had any major problems with using these generators for their RV's and having electronics damaged by them?? I know mkmathis had an issue, but believe that was resolved.

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Regarding Chupp's reply about construction business experiences: I've got Robin (now Subaru Robin) engines in a genset and air compressor. Both put up with a lot of abuse and neglect and keep running. (The seals went out on the compressor itself and the generator quit putting out juice but both engines still run well.)

On the other hand, I had some bad experiences with Honda's attitude towards it's customers and avoid their products. (Honda was several months late delivering a new motorcycle, to the point of almost causing my wife to miss Alaska's short riding season that year. When I wrote to complain, corporation sent two representatives to visit the dealer for the express purpose of telling him to keep his customers from writing headquarters. I, on the other hand, never got any response from them.)

Griff

[Al_in_Va]

Curly, thanks for the info. "Not too loud" was what I was hoping for. Guess I will fire mine up today. Al in Va.

[Curly2001]

I bought a Pro power too and it is rated at 68dba. There is a hot line with a toll free number to call which I did. The Tech guy told me they are in China now and have just e-mailed him the dba rate of 68. They may come in lower he thinks. I asked about the Eliminator and he said he could not comment on them. This is distributed by Wen Electric which is a good old name for power tools. Mine started on the first pull. It runs my 13,500 btu with no problem. It does not have a low idle but is not too loud either. It was $299.00 at Pep Boys with a one year warranty. The tech told me they are setting up a parts distribution network and parts are no problems. He may a comment to me that they will succeed with these units.
Just my rambling thoughts....Curly

[FrizzleFried]

Something tells me that he wasn't BSin' when he said that the the PowerMate wasn't sold there any longer in California because of the EPA....I just checked the Ebay online selection, the only auctions going with the 4-receptical 120/1 220 receptical versions of this generator all had a disclaimer at the bottom: "SORRY, CAN NOT SELL OR SHIP TO CALIFORNIA DUE TO EPA REGULATIONS"...

...now that sucks.

[youth4him]

My wildfire should be an ELM3000 version, it should be here in a couple of days, so we'll see...

KD

If you missed it, these are the wildfire brand on ebay, under $300 plus shipping.

[FrizzleFried]

OK....my local Pep Boys (Santee California, near San Diego) guy said they carry two brands and two brands only....Nakita & Coleman...talked to another guy there who said tomorrow he is supposed to get a shipment of gens in, including a new brand that is to replace the Nakita. Went by the local Kragen Auto and they only had the Champion..(BTW: Can someone explain to me FOR SURE if the Champion is NOT one of these Honda knockoffs)...I asked about the PowerWise and was told "We no longer carry them. They did not pass California's EPA emissions standards."

Harbor Freight does have a model there but it is the 2-receptical + 12v model....will this one work for me if I don't need 220v? It only did have a single breaker switch. Unfortunately, it's listed at $369 there.

Any other suggestions?

BTW: Don't dare rely on checkerauto.com's website for accuracy as it reports 2 local Kragen Auto stores have the PowerWise...both of which (including the one that said they no longer carry them) didn't have any.

[Al_in_Va]

Dont know, but they told me this was what they were getting to replace the Nikota. Said they were no longer carrying the Nikota. I didnt mention that I knew Nikota was no longer in business. This unit has a "one-year warranty". They said this was better than the other units that had no warranty. Of course, I know the warranty is no good if the manufacturer goes out of business, but if it fails, I might be able to get a store credit or something from Pep Boys. All told, I dont think this is a Nikota, but I could be wrong. Also, when I said one 110 outlet, I meant ONLY one outlet-not the duplex receptacle that was on the ELM3000, and maybe the Nikota. Just a place to plug in one plug. Al in Va.

[AstroBruce]

Quote

"I took mine to a local community college and he scoped it. They are out of sync and the full 360 took 1/8th of a second. Is this too long a time lapse to put the 30-15 Power Maximizer type adapter into both outlets and then plug the 30A RV cord from the TT? What damage could this do if they are 1/16th of a second out of sync?"

Wow, This is way over my head. Will someone please explain this one to me.

[RVnFish]

I'm curious about the genset mentioned by Al also. That is the unit that is now available. I've got the manager of Pep Boys saying he will sell me that one for $249 since they can't honor the raincheck I had for the Elim. Any info would be appreciated.

[FrizzleFried]

Single breaker = bad / 2 breakser = good?

I am a bit confused. Can someone please state clearly (for us slow people), just EXACTLY what A RV guy would be looking for if he was to go out and purchase one of these. I only had an Onan 2.8 in the rig before (it died a horrible death). I can't imagine my AC is all that large (22' box, 1977). Can someone provide EXACT models that need be avoided and or purchased?

Locations (other than Pep Boys....)

[Stripes]

Al in Va wrote:
Did I do good or not so good. I was going to order one of the ELM clones from Harbor Freight (the one they rate at 2600/2800watts), but today I went into Pep Boys, Richmond, VA, and they have some units they called Power Pro by Wen Power, they rate at 3000/3500, with the 6.5 hp,196cc motor. Has one 110 and one 220 outlet and 12 volt, and it looked like you could get the whole output from the one 110 outlet (25amp breaker). It also had a large muffler similar to the ELM3000, and it was right there for $299, so I bought it. Now, does anyone know how noisy these things are? The manual did not give any noise info. Did I do good or not? I would really like to know before I cant stand it any longer and put oil and gas in it and fire it up. If this is a good unit, they had others on the floor. Al in Va.

What it sounds like you have purchased is one of the new Nikota 3500's from the new importer. Nikota has gone out of business and their inventory and assets have been purchased by American Power Products. The design you describe is just like the Nikota in the most recent Pep Boys ad mentioned a page or two back in this thread. Like I said in an earlier post, this unit has one 25A breaker as opposed to two 13A like the ones that started this post.
However, my question would now be to Kevin or to Professor, does this mean that the unit could now be manufactured and wired parallel to the outlet and therefore capable of sustaining the proper wattage to support an RV AC with a dual 30-15 Power Maximizer adapter? Or could this unit still be a single phase that fires to each outlet 180 degrees out of sync?
I took mine to a local community college and he scoped it. They are out of sync and the full 360 took 1/8th of a second. Is this too long a time lapse to put the 30-15 Power Maximizer type adapter into both outlets and then plug the 30A RV cord from the TT? What damage could this do if they are 1/16th of a second out of sync?

Furthermore, I finally took my Nikota 3500 with the dual breakers to my RV storage today just to try to run the 13,500 BTU AC. I plugged the 30A RV cord to one outlet with a HD adapter. The genset handled the AC alone just fine. I let it run awhile and then I plugged in a small dorm type fridge and it threw the breaker. Reminder now that I replaced the 13A breakers with 15A.

What I want to try next is to run a separate extension cord into the RV off the other outlet on a separate breaker and use this to plug my small fridge, microwave and/or coffee maker into. Would this be too much for the 3500 genset. What about just the fridge? Any thoughts?

[Al_in_Va]

Did I do good or not so good. I was going to order one of the ELM clones from Harbor Freight (the one they rate at 2600/2800watts), but today I went into Pep Boys, Richmond, VA, and they have some units they called Power Pro by Wen Power, they rate at 3000/3500, with the 6.5 hp,196cc motor. Has one 110 and one 220 outlet and 12 volt, and it looked like you could get the whole output from the one 110 outlet (25amp breaker). It also had a large muffler similar to the ELM3000, and it was right there for $299, so I bought it. Now, does anyone know how noisy these things are? The manual did not give any noise info. Did I do good or not? I would really like to know before I cant stand it any longer and put oil and gas in it and fire it up. If this is a good unit, they had others on the floor. Al in Va.

[toprudder]

what if the generators hot wire comes in contact with the rv's metal framework when you are driving on the road? ,,are the tires enough to act as a ground?

I would think (and hope) that this would cause a fault and trip the current breaker. Neutral and Ground should be tied together, so if the hot contacts the RV frame (which should be connected to the generator ground) then a short-circuit situation should exist.

Rubber is non-conductive. However, I've heard that the tire manufacturers put something in the compound that adds a very small amount of conductivity to reduce static buildup on the car. I don't know if this is true, I've never checked. It only has to be several megaohms to work -- but this certainly is not enough conductivity to ground the vehicle to prevent electrical shock.

[MrWizard]

QUOTE


I do have a true first hand experience supported story about a guy who was killed like this - but I will spare you the details. The majority of my knowledge on this subject comes from the days I was a Cardiac Tech and EMT-A Instructor running with my local EMS unit.

END QUOTE

I too have a story, a real one, happened 26 years ago

I was working on industrial wiring, JBL speakers was moving all the operations into one complex here in the valley,

another electrcian was up on a sissor lift above me , we were working on HOT 480 volt 3 phase lines adding more runs to feed some Dryers on conveyor belts lines that were going to be moved in that weekend

he was wire nuting one of the connections when he brushed ground ( conduit ) with the other elbow, { you are sppoosed to be wearing gloves and not touching anything bare )

anyway I saw him get shocked & hung ( muscle contaction }

I hit the service breaker, ( it was like 10 ft away )

and lowered the lift, using the manual hydarlic bleed valve on the lift carriage

by this time he's starting to come around, and say's he Okay,

he leans over to cross the conveyor line. and passes out cold drops straight to the floor, NO decernible heart beat or pulse

I start CPR and start yelling for help, Bill & larry run over

bill helps me with 'carl' { later nicknamed 'super' } and larry runs for the phone

bill & I keep at untill the paramedics show up.

by the time they got there ( damm quick ) carl was comming around again with no idea of what had happen, his arm musscles where so tight, the medics had truble getting a pulse or even getting a needle in him

he was back at work 2 days later with a series of burn marks on both arms

the doctors and medics said his heart had defriblated ? right word ? said it was a minor miracle we mange to keep a enough blood and oxygen gong thru his system untill they got there where a machine.

we worked another 8 months on that project with anyone else getting hurt

if my memory is correct it only takes about 90 milli-amps across the the heart to do this

I too have more stories, but from other places other construction wiring jobs