3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[tvman44]

I have the Power Protection Surge Guard #34520 hard wired into our 5er and it worked just fine with the Chammpion #C46540 ginny out of the box. I did not check to see if the neutral was bonded or not.

[BFRXLT]

HedoTravelers wrote:

BFRXLT wrote:
I have a question for any one whom can answer it.

I would like to know what a reasonable temperature I could expect on say a 90 degree day for the oil and the hot exhaust air (not the engine exhaust)?

I am talking about the oil temperature I could for the engine oil if I took one of the drain plugs out and put in an oil temperature gauge.

I am talking about the air temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the shroud after cooling the engine.

If any one has something they have actually measured that would be the best scenario. It doesn't have to be a 90 degree day but the relevant ambient temperature.

What I am trying to find out is what temperature to expect the oil/air to be under a half load without any enclosure and with an enclosure so I can buy an appropriate gauge for the engine without guessing since I don't have anything that measures temperatures that high and don't want to spend the money on something I'll probably never use again.

Thanks, Jack

For the air temps, you could try THIS for only $7.
They have others also.

I could use this to get a ball park estimate of the temperature. It would give me a read of the surrounding area which should be clost to the temperature.

[BFRXLT]

professor95 wrote:

BFRXLT wrote:
What I am trying to find out is what temperature to expect the oil/air to be under a half load without any enclosure and with an enclosure so I can buy an appropriate gauge for the engine without guessing since I don't have anything that measures temperatures that high and don't want to spend the money on something I'll probably never use again.

I believe you will find that a conventional mechanical water temperature gauge will work well.

The oil temperature should not exceed 200 to 210 degrees F and can be screwed into the fill hole. As far as exhaust air, the placement of the dry bulb on the gauge for the air temperature can be configured so as to remain in range. I selected the void between the air deflector and lower fins for my sensor bulb. If you follow the coiled black cable to the sensor, you will be able to see the spot I used.

The place you have this sensor at is exactly where I was thinking of puting mine at.

Are you saying the oil temperature should not be over 210 degrees? It would seem to me the oil would run hotter than that. How did you attach the bulb sensor to the engine? I was thinking of more or less laying where I want it at and using a cable clamp placed on the nearest bolt hole.

[pitstop]

Prof95,
I appreciate the advise/opinion. I am going to order the EMS and report how it responds with the Champion genset. My research has shown that most gen's are floating neutral so I agree it should not be a problem. However, it seems most people are also not using their protection for both gen and shore supply. Worst case is I have to bypass hi/lo voltage/freq protection with gen. Surge will still be protected.
Pitstop racing.

[tvman44]

There is a drain, drain the bowl and tank put in fresh gas and try again.

[tvman44]

Ok today my son bought a Champion C46540 for an early Fathers Day and birthday present for me. 🙂 After we got home I filled it with oil and fresh gasoline and it started up first pull, ran it for 10 minutes with no load like the instructions say then plugged in the 5er the 15,000 btu A/C started right up the ginny didn't even grunt, the engine changed pitch a little but not much then after a few minutes I started up the microwave while the A/C was running and it ran fine. I am extremely pleased with my present :D, also it was even quieter than I expected, a whole lot queiter than my 5 kw Coleman Powermate. :C

[tvman44]

Just a heads up to anyone considering a 3000W Chinese Gensets specifically the champion C46540. Cabela's will have them onb sale next Saturday 03/08/2008 For $279.00. Can't beat that. 🙂 🙂

[HedoTravelers]

I havent had my champion long... is there a drain on the carb float bowl? If so, drain it. If there was something in the muffler, it would most likely expel itself from the outlet. Carb cleaner does not burn well in engines, so it tends to make them stall out. I am hoping you just have to much cleaner in the carb & cylinder to let it fire up. It is backfiring, so at least you know you have spark. How long did it sit? Usually sitting lets the carb cleaner evaporate and it should start. I don't know if I would put any engine starter in it as that stuff strips the cylinder walls of lubrication... maybe a tiny shot to try it. If it runs with that, then it is not getting gasoline as it should, or there is still too much carb cleaner in there. You may need to test the warranty if you have one.

[Curly2001]

So far it still backfires and won't start. I may have too much cleaner in the muffler?? Would that be possible that it didnt get burned? I will wait and see if it runs later on. What else could have happened? Thanks,
Curly

[HedoTravelers]

Not sure if it is applies here, but, when doing this on an auto with a carburetor you can stall the motor if you use a lot of it. How many times did you pull it over? Maybe there is to much carb cleaner & not enough gasoline in the carb? I assume some time has passed since you last attempted to start it... will it start now that is has sat a bit? Have you cleaned/dried the spark plug? And not for nothing, is the switch on? I know it sounds crazy, but I know I have missed simple things like that on occasion. 🙂

[Curly2001]

I have a PowerPro 3500 that was surging rpm wise and decided to use carb cleaner to clean it while running. It seemed to help so I used some more and it backfired but still ran. I shut it off and then started it again and then it backfired and died. What kind of idiot thing did I do to it? It won't start now and when I try it backfires.
Sad,
Curly

[bobandcat]

HedoTravelers wrote:

BFRXLT wrote:
I have a question for any one whom can answer it.

I would like to know what a reasonable temperature I could expect on say a 90 degree day for the oil and the hot exhaust air (not the engine exhaust)?

I am talking about the oil temperature I could for the engine oil if I took one of the drain plugs out and put in an oil temperature gauge.

I am talking about the air temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the shroud after cooling the engine.

If any one has something they have actually measured that would be the best scenario. It doesn't have to be a 90 degree day but the relevant ambient temperature.

What I am trying to find out is what temperature to expect the oil/air to be under a half load without any enclosure and with an enclosure so I can buy an appropriate gauge for the engine without guessing since I don't have anything that measures temperatures that high and don't want to spend the money on something I'll probably never use again.

Thanks, Jack

For the air temps, you could try THIS for only $7.
They have others also.

The non-contact thermometer noted above is a good deal but it can not be used to measure air temps. It is a device for measuring the surface temp of an object. It also is limited to 230 degrees F. I have one of these.

I would use a pencil style temp probe for measuring air temps like the meat probe for an oven. Harbor freight sells them also. Be patient and you will see them on sale for about $2-3 in their add or on-line.

1'' POCKET THERMOMETER


Take quick, accurate measurements in the field or laboratory. Magnified 1'' dial displays temperatures from 0° to 220° Fahrenheit. Includes handy pocket sheath.
Read temperatures in gasses, liquids, semi-solids

[professor95]

pitstop wrote:
I posted a question in a new thread a couple days ago and thought I'd ask here also.
I have the Champion C46540 and figured out that it is wired neutral floating, not bonded. I want to purchase a surge/voltage protector like the EMS HW30. However, Progressive Industries says that it doesn't work with some generators. Seems the protector senses open ground or polarity issue on gens without bonding. Progressive said I could make an adapter to tie them together at the gen, but I don't think that's a good idea.

Any ideas on how to provide protection from shore and genny malfunction in a TT?

Progressive Industries wrote:
Open neutral protection: If the source has an open neutral condition the display will not light, and will not allow power to the RV.

Open ground protection: If source power has an open ground condition the EMS will read an error code of E2 and will not allow power to the RV.

I suspect the C46540 will work OK with the HW30. But, if the above conditions develop with the HW30, you will need to bond the neutral and ground together or use their adapter as they advised.

While I am one who has strongly advocated NOT doing this for RV usage, I will concede that it should be safe IF you have the HW30 connected. The HW30 will sense a fault in either the genset or RV, if one should occur, and shut down your RV electrical supply.

[HedoTravelers]

BFRXLT wrote:
I have a question for any one whom can answer it.

I would like to know what a reasonable temperature I could expect on say a 90 degree day for the oil and the hot exhaust air (not the engine exhaust)?

I am talking about the oil temperature I could for the engine oil if I took one of the drain plugs out and put in an oil temperature gauge.

I am talking about the air temperature of the cooling air as it leaves the shroud after cooling the engine.

If any one has something they have actually measured that would be the best scenario. It doesn't have to be a 90 degree day but the relevant ambient temperature.

What I am trying to find out is what temperature to expect the oil/air to be under a half load without any enclosure and with an enclosure so I can buy an appropriate gauge for the engine without guessing since I don't have anything that measures temperatures that high and don't want to spend the money on something I'll probably never use again.

Thanks, Jack

For the air temps, you could try THIS for only $7.
They have others also.

[professor95]

BFRXLT wrote:
What I am trying to find out is what temperature to expect the oil/air to be under a half load without any enclosure and with an enclosure so I can buy an appropriate gauge for the engine without guessing since I don't have anything that measures temperatures that high and don't want to spend the money on something I'll probably never use again.

I believe you will find that a conventional mechanical water temperature gauge will work well.

The oil temperature should not exceed 200 to 210 degrees F and can be screwed into the fill hole. As far as exhaust air, the placement of the dry bulb on the gauge for the air temperature can be configured so as to remain in range. I selected the void between the air deflector and lower fins for my sensor bulb. If you follow the coiled black cable to the sensor, you will be able to see the spot I used.