3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

To Palpatine: Yes
.................................
Concerning enclosures and sound abatement:

While it has been mentioned but not extensively discussed, the material inside of the box (doghouse, tee-pee, igloo, whatever...) is also a critical factor to consider.

I am sure everyone knows that hard surfaces easily reflect sound. Thus, plywood or foil faced materials are not the best choice. Neither is plastic.

What you need is a material that will absorb sound (more properly said, not resonate or reflect).

Working on larger scale projects that have problems with sound reflection (like auditoriums), I have learned that these readily available and inexpensive materials are excellent sound absorbers:

Spun fiberglass batting (home insulation).
Foam rubber mattress toppers, especially the convoluted type.
Deep pile carpet.
Carpet padding - both foam and compressed rubber chips
Loosely hung fabric.
Acoustical ceiling tiles (with little holes)
Even cardboard with lots of little holes punched in the inner layer with a wallpaper scorer.

In addition, consider plants or bushes with dense foliage (a circle of Boxwoods would look good growing on the back of a RV!);)

Of the above, all are flammable to a degree except for spun fiberglass.

There are, of course, commercial materials specifically for sound absorption, but their cost and availability is usually higher or harder to find.

When designing an enclosure, at least equal consideration should be paid to the sound absorption traits of material used for construction.

Also consider that strategically placed baffles won't seriously impact cooling air flow into or out of the box, but will dramatically break up sound waves - especially when covered with any of the above materials.

To most of the guys working on this part of the project - I know this is obvious, thus it may have been "assumed" everyone was considering the material. But I also know what the letters in "assume" stand for...... making an Ass out of U and Me.

[RadioNeal]

I'm not happy with the quality of the duplex recepticle (110v outlet) on my ELM3000. It has loosened up very quickly during my testing, causing my heavy duty extension cord to not make contact, and to work loose from the vibrations of the unit. I'm going to replace it with an industrial or hospital grade 20Amp outlet. I think I'll also add a strain relief to hold the cords while I'm at it.

Cheers!

[Palpatine]

professor95 wrote:


Since your unit is 110 only, there is no need for the phase reversal switch or the second circuit breaker.

So does this mean the Cummins will put full power to just one 110 outlet? Thanks in advance.

[Dubman]

RadioNeal wrote:
Hmmm... I've never seen an igloo style doghouse, but sounds like it might work.

'Dogloo' Kinda pricey for this one, but will it work??? Maybe put small attic type fan at top.

[RadioNeal]

Hmmm... I've never seen an igloo style doghouse, but sounds like it might work.

[catalina30]

RadioNeal wrote:
A dog house has rectangular sides. We want to keep away from 90 degree angles. Sound waves tend to reinforce each other when they are reflected inside boxes. What we'd really like is for reflected sound to be at odd angles which will tend to cancel the sound waves out, not reinforce them.

Cheers!

what you are saying is an igloo style dog house like you can buy at the local pet store.

Kevin

[Stripes]

professor95 wrote:
I will be glad to post the diagrams for you, Kevin. email is rtagee@comcast.net.

I hope this happens as I am one who had also purchased the Nikota before I came across this great thread. I have already changed the circuit breakers from the 13A (my diagram also showed them as 10A) to two 15A breakers. Once I am clear on how to tie the hots together with a 30A female RV pig-tail, and if my understanding of the process is correct, I will then have a straight 120V (no longer 240V capability)generator with 30A circuit breaker protection.

BTW, while in Atlanta 2 weeks ago, I checked every Pep Boys in the greater area, about 10 stores, and not one had an ELM3000 nor knew when they may be getting one.

Thanks to all for a very informative thread.

[RadioNeal]

Fellow Traveler suggested that the sides could be made of 1" Thermax. It's aluminized on both sides.

Sounds like a great idea to me. Part of my notion is to have something that can be folded, or rolled up, for storage. A few aluminum tent poles and some thermax or something similar sounds good.

cheers!

[Dubman]

RadioNeal wrote:

mkmathis wrote:
WIth a pup tent thought in mind, wouldnt a dog house work just fine then??? Opening in front for access and drill holes or whatever need be on the top?

Just a thought..

Sure, and where will your poor fido sleep?

Question here is where am I going to sleep!! Since I have been spending so much time trying to figure this out, I have been in the doghouse for a week!!! :B

[RadioNeal]

The more I think about this, the more I like the Teepee shape.

Sound reflects back and forth in an enclosure with right angles. If you think of a Teepee, it's cone shaped. the sound will tend to bounce against itself. Also, the cone shape is sort of like a venturi, if air can enter all around the bottom, it will be drawn upward by the hot exhaust gas from the extended exhaust pipe. As the cone is more restricted near the top, the velocity will increase. This would also help scavenge exhaust gas from the generator by creating a bit of negative pressure.

Cheers!

[RadioNeal]

mkmathis wrote:
WIth a pup tent thought in mind, wouldnt a dog house work just fine then??? Opening in front for access and drill holes or whatever need be on the top?

Just a thought..

Sure, and where will your poor fido sleep?

[Dubman]

mkmathis wrote:
WIth a pup tent thought in mind, wouldnt a dog house work just fine then??? Opening in front for access and drill holes or whatever need be on the top?

Good idea... I can remove the top section, use some leftover plywood, and build a chimney like top, or maybe even use a small attic exhaust fan at the top of the tee-pee.. hmmmmm.. I just have to remember that I am not trying to soundproof this generator.. Just quiet it down..

RadioNeal wrote:
What we'd really like is for reflected sound to be at odd angles which will tend to cancel the sound waves out, not reinforce them.

Are you suggesting a octagon shaped enclosure or something similar? Would this really be more effective???

[RadioNeal]

A dog house has rectangular sides. We want to keep away from 90 degree angles. Sound waves tend to reinforce each other when they are reflected inside boxes. What we'd really like is for reflected sound to be at odd angles which will tend to cancel the sound waves out, not reinforce them.

Cheers!

[mkmathis]

WIth a pup tent thought in mind, wouldnt a dog house work just fine then??? Opening in front for access and drill holes or whatever need be on the top?

Just a thought..

[RadioNeal]

To elaborate and clarify a bit with regard to my comments about exhaust and convection:

What I am thinking of here is extending the ELM3000 exhaust vertically, as Professor95 shows in his web site picture, up toward the top of a Teepee shaped enclosure (or pyramid shape,) Not quite to the top, with air space all around. This will create a draft, much like a fireplace or furnace flue does. The hot exhaust will suck air along with it. This air will be replaced with cool air drawn in from ground-level vents.

--Neal