Advice for my charging situation? Solar?

[Naio]

Hi folks -

This is for my minivan.

I have:

- 24 hour usage around 1 kilowatt, on average. Half a kw on a lazy day (which usually = a cloudy or rainy day, for me). Max I have read on the kill-a-watt meter is 1.5 so far, but some days may be more.

- 2 @ 74 aH MK gel batteries that I use during the day, in a 24 volt system. I would like to recharge them every day, morning and evening, and use them approx 11am-4pm about 2 out of 3 days.

- 1 @ about 150 aH house battery, AGM, used at night, would like to recharge each day.

- A mini freezer that I would like to run while boondocking but I don't HAVE to. It uses 77w while running (kill-a-watt) but has a big surge when starting (would need a big inverter).

- According to kill-a-watt meter, no phantom loads when freezer is off. I have no propane, so no CO2 detector, etc.

- A bad back that makes lifting a 35lb generator completely out of the question.

- Camping habits that lean heavily towards desert and beach, very little deep shade (usually none).

- Not enough money to do solar AND a genny this year.

- Experience with 12/24v systems design and debugging (before I came here, I thought I knew a lot...) and none at all with small gas engines.

So, what do y'all think?

I'm leaning towards solar, but a genny permanently mounted inside the van, under the bed, with an exhaust vent to the outside and a fuel pump running off the van gas tank is an option. My main concern there is that I know nothing about debugging and maintaining gas engines.

Solar-wise, I could mount panels on the existing roof rack, and run the wires through the window. Am thinking a solar30, 300 watts 12v panel/s, and anderson connectors that let me hook to any of my 3 batteries. Very much subject to y'all's suggestions/improvements.

I also want to run power from the alternator. But I don't drive a lot in a day, or every day. Still, it is something.

I look forward to your comments and ideas! I have been reading a lot, in other threads, but I still feel ignorant. I'd like to get something going within the next month or so.

[Naio]

pianotuna wrote:
You would be better off with a 24 volt DC to 12 volt DC converter.

Yes, that's what I mean. Did I seem to be saying something else?

How many amps, and are there other specs I need to be concerned about, power quality or summat? What does one seller mean when they say (in Engrish) 'not for solar system'?

Do you mean remote start kits?

Is that different from electric start? I googled both; no luck.

[Salvo]

You'll need a converter similar to the Iota + IQ4 $350 to charge batteries either from shore power or gen.

http://www.bestconverter.com/DLS-27-40-24-Volt-40-Amp-Power-Converter_p_357.html#.VXco7EbQOG8

On the solar side:
2 x 190w panels: $380
1 x pwm charge controller: $50
4 x Costco GC2: $360
1 x Battery case: $71
cables, mounting hardware & duct tape: $150

You can seal the battery box with duct tape. Check for battery water every 3 months.

[pianotuna]

You would be better off with a 24 volt DC to 12 volt DC converter.

Do you mean remote start kits?

[Naio]

Uh-oh, I see electric start kits for Honda and Yamaha, but there don't seem to be any for Champion.

[Naio]

Thanks, folks. And good afternoon :).

Looks like supergen doesn't have the refurbs any more. A quick google says i can add electric start to a genny for about $200, and it's $200 for a hitch carrier (Harbor Freight).

I'm trying to keep this project under $1000 total. And under $500 would be better!

On the solar side, I hope to avoid buying new batteries. (And I don't think wet cells + new custom airtight console box would be less than AGM, given that I can't build it myself right now due to injuries.)

Can I do solar with a 24v system and a DC/DC converter to charge my 12v house battery? I have a 5amp converter, but I assume I need bigger. How big? Ebay prices: 12a $7.50, 20a $22, 30a $67, 50a $77, all include shipping.

Of course there are probably other things I need to know about choosing a converter. ..

[time2roll]

Naio wrote:
Honda 3000 at $2000 is too rich for my blood.

remote start Champ 2800w $999 shipped

[MrWizard]

Naio

check out SuperGen.com, look at the refurb champion generators
great prices, much cheaper than a Honda, even when brand new
the 3000i electric remote start is around $1100, the pull start several hundred less, and the 2000i even cheaper
you might be surprised how easy one of these starts

[Naio]

I may be wrong, but when I imagine driving with a hitch carrier holding genny and gas cans, I feel pretty sure I would not be able to see carrier and would eventually forget and back it into a tree. And then it is right there by hot exhaust pipe... is this a real issue or am I paranoid?

[Naio]

Aw, thanks, youse guys!

Honda 3000 at $2000 is too rich for my blood. As is a class B or C, tho I do ogle them.

Is adding electric start to another genny practical or shall I rule out the genny option?

I COULD pull a trailer. I actually own one, tho it's not enclosed. There is other stuff I could carry then, true. But I really like being small and nimble.

Salvo, thanks much for the suggested solar setup. What do you other guys think about having solar panels stick out past the sides of the van? I wonder if I would get them hung up on brush and stuff.

In fact I should ask y'all in general: Do I need to worry about brush scratching or mangling solar panels that DON'T stick out?

[westend]

Have you thought about pulling a small utility trailer? I know from another thread you're cramped for storage space and trying to park a Honda 3000 inside a minivan while remaining habitable is a fool's errand, IMO.

The overriding priority in all this is that you're operating a business. Said business, however large or small is the propeller for the ship of life, so to speak. You want that propeller turning no matter how much power you need and at any time of day. Due to even the modest power requirements mentioned previously that would have you adding battery capacity and shoe-horning in every bit of module space possible, if it's overcast or somewhere you don't have adequate light, your ship may be adrift. A generator is a known quantity (if it runs). I know concessionaires that use gensets effectively. They are usually mounted on the concession trailer tongue or placed alongside, out of the way.

Also, I believe how you've expressed your power requirements is minimizing the actual needs. That 2 HP motor is going to eat power under most conditions and you may need power for other things like preparing food, freezing ice, running lights, etc.

My final suggestion about this is to buy a small trailer and have your power plant in/on it. There have been some posters on this Forum that have implemented solar and carry batteries on a small trailer like suggested. You could have the best of both and your propeller will be turning smoothly, rain or shine.

Good luck with the power plant.

[Salvo]

This *may* work for 1000W/day.

1. Two 72-cell (24V) mono panel (JTM190-73M). Two will give you 380W. Set them side by side on the roof rack. They'll stick out about 5" on each side. Size: 62 x 31.8" Roof working area is 90 x 55".

2. Four golf cart batteries (Costco) configured to 24V. You'll need a sealed battery case with a vent to the outside. Drill a small hole into the floor of the van to fit the vent hose. Without the 4 x GC2's the charging system has no chance. When the 24V tool batteries need charging, connect parallel to the GCs. Sell the existing house battery.

3. 24V PWM charge controller.

[time2roll]

There are no small lightweight electric start generators that I know of so my best shot is to recommend a Honda 3000.
Although you may want to go down to a Honda or Yamaha dealer and see if you can pull the cord on a 1000.
Need to figure out how to carry or mount your choice.

Have you thought about trading for a class B or C with built in generator?

Good luck.

[Naio]

Alrighty, I need to get moving on this, but I am still having a hard time making a decision. It feel like choosing between two pigs in two pokes.

Questions of the day:

1. How the heck do I know whether genny or solar is going to be more practical for me, in terms of maintenance and use?

2. If I were to get a genny, which one do you folks recommend for me? No pull start. My main power draws are battery charging and freezer, but if I could run my half pint microwave (label doesn't say, but internet says it is 600watts) that would be SUPER convenient. Heck, maybe even 900w hotplate. See, even thinking about a genny makes me start adding all this other stuff that I would not try to do on solar.

Bah, I am annoyed with myself, so it is no wonder if you guys are annoyed with me. But I am stuck on what to do.

[Naio]

smkettner wrote:

Naio wrote:
It's 2hp and ocassionally blows a 100amp breaker. And its use is primarily away from the rig.

My guess is a shave ice machine at the local carnival...

Sure, let's call it that.

So, the carnivals I do ice at don't have electricity. I run my ice shaver off batteries.

On an average day, it takes half a kwh to recharge the batteries. The season hasn't heated up yet, so I don't have a measurement for a high use day (more heat = more customers). My guess is it might be 2x the measurement I have, 3x max.

I would use the solar setup to charge my ice shaver batteries until noon and after 4 on the days we work, and all day on the off days. The work schedule varies but is often alternate days.

I would charge my house battery when not charging the ice batteries, as it is less important to me. (It does run the ice freezer, but freezer keeps ice frozen 3-4 days without power.)

If it's cold and rainy there are very few customers, which is why I think solar might be feasible.