Almost Had a Fire Last Night

[phillyg]

Our dog woke my DW last night (I wasn't home), to a haze of smoke and strong electrical smell. The smoke detectors did not activate! She got our 5yr old granddaughter out, along with the dog. DW pulled out the 50a shore power.

DW saw smoke coming up behind the stove and she called the fire dept., which arrived before I did. They found "light" smoke and determined a breaker had tripped. That breaker services the TV and the fridge.

I noticed a strong electrical and plastic smell when I arrived after midnight. The FD couldn't find any active burning and suspected a bad electrical connection, and suggested not connecting back to shore power, with which I wholeheartedly agreed, until we could get to a repair shop.

This morning, we found light soot in the drawers next to the stove so I pulled them and the one under the stove and found a melted 120v connector. It joins the sheaved flexible wire to the solid Romex cable inside the kitchen slideout . The connector was screwed to the floor, along with two other similar ones. I have no idea why it failed, but thankfully, the breaker tripped before it started a fire on the floor or the wall 2" away. Also, the gas line runs right next to the wires. There is a lot of soot within an 8" radius.

I've never seen this type of connector before, and I suspect it's only used in the RV industry. I'm familiar with residential steel or plastic junction boxes; I used a steel box to make the repair. I'll likely get a bigger junction box and eliminate the other two connectors, too. BTW, the FD checked the smoke detectors and they worked. I find it strange that sometimes cooking on the stove trips one of the detectors but last night's smoke did not.

Bottom line: We love our fire safety dog Blu, and are thankful no one was hurt, or worse

[pianotuna]

I replaced all the stab connector outlets. They are one step up from unadulterated Junk.

[wa8yxm]

The "Speed Box" (I call 'em Quick Box cause that's the Brand in my RV but Speed works too) are punch down connectors.. That is the still insulated wire is "punched down" into a metal slit that slices through the insulation and makes a Knife Edge contact with the wire.... Good for Phone (Few thousands of an ampere) up to around single digits.. But once you get into double digit amprage they scare me.. I've melted one, and seen others melt as well.

I really do not like 'em

My Stranded to romex are wire nuts.. and even those have failed on me and needed soldering (As noted above) Soldered does not fail.

For Space heaters and even my "Kitchen 2" circuit.. I bent 12ga wire around screws and TIGHTENED them down.. No problems to date.

[debandbobgo]

We almost had a fire last Saturday, very similar situation. I was eating breakfast in our RV and smoke started coming out of the vents from the cabinet underneath the TV. I opened the bathroom door, which is behind the cabinet, and smoke came billowing out. I grabbed the fire extinguisher, ran outside, and opened the exterior door underneath the bathroom. Smoke came billowing out of that area as well, no visible flames as yet. It smelled like an electrical fire and I immediately unplugged the shore power, cutoff the power to the coach batteries, turned off the propane, and then turned off the main circuit breaker. After collecting our pets, I called 911. After the FD came out they said not to plug in the shore power or any electrical til we had the electrical checked out. After the RV tech came out, he had to remove the shroud from the outside compartment and found the location of the meltdown. He removed the melted parts and temporarily fixed some components for use. We currently don't have power to 6 outlets, no use of the bathroom sink, and the main TV. Water pipes, drains and vents were damaged. We've notified Tiffin who gave us the number of their local CA rep. I contacted the Tiffin Rep who discussed the situation with a Tiffin technician and told me to call our insurance company. It was just by chance that I was still in our RV when the flare up occurred and I can only speculate what might have happened had I not been there to address the issue. I was disappointed at the lack of empathy shown by the rep considering the seriousness of the problem. Our insurance representative came out today and assessed the damage and took photos. Based on what he saw, he preliminary indicated that the Molex 19045-30 Power Connector is likely the cause. Our case is under review pending investigation of an independent agency.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The failure would be the final assembly. If OEM fault causes mis-assembly and danger is it just one OEM or an industry-wide problem?

[wa8yxm]

myredracer wrote:
Curious - where would you have stranded wire connected to solid on 120 volts?....

Short answer is a slide out.. I have two junction boxes under my main slide and I'm sure Well I know there is one under or two under the bed and likely under the wardrobe.

Romex (solid core) to the junction, then flexible for the arm that holds the wire under the slide, then romex again to the outlet in the slide out ..

Also the leads in my inverter are stranded and the cable to it ROMEX so there are a bunch of such connections inside it.

[mike-s]

I trust Molex quality. I'd bet the issue is that the manufacturer, instead of buying the proper $400 tool, just uses a $4 pair of pliers.

[phillyg]

LTrentlage wrote:
I also had a small fire behind a panel under the rear sink......caused by a Molex (molex 19045-30 part # ) connection that melted and caught fire......This is supposed to be a higher end Model on a Mercedes truck chassis. Yet Winnebago went with a cheap parts and a dangerous design on the electrical components and system.

Yep, that's the same Molex part, and I have two more of them in the same vicinity. Plan to replace them before our next trip but they're in a nearly inaccessible space under the stove (nothing's ever easy). Those connectors seem to be an RV industry standard.

[LTrentlage]

I also had a small fire behind a panel under the rear sink in my Winnebago View. It was caused by a Molex (molex 19045-30 part # ) connection that melted and caught fire. This connection provides power to the 110 outlet mounted in the slide. This molex connection was screwed into the linoleum floor. This connection heats up and catches the plastic floor on fire. Behind a panel where you can't see the fire. I think Winnebago needs to rethink how they wire these units. This is a fire waiting to happen. This design uses an outlet as a junction box hidden in the wall with crimp on speed connectors both screwed into the floor. The molex connects to this to join in the slide 110 outlet power.. This molex wire connection is used where wire switches from Romex to stranded flexible wire for the slide. I also had a prior fire when the power converter caught fire.

[joeshmoe]

phillyg wrote:
Our dog woke my DW last night (I wasn't home), to a haze of smoke and strong electrical smell. The smoke detectors did not activate! She got our 5yr old granddaughter out, along with the dog. DW pulled out the 50a shore power.

Yep. A dog alarm is better than any gadget. Good for Blu. I hope you gave him an extra treat. Glad to hear nobody was hurt.

[gbkim]

Sounds like same type of problem from a post from a couple of years ago on grand design:
2-23-2016, 12:10 PM #1
HankABG
Reflection Electrical Fire
"We took delivery of a 2016 Reflection 27RL 5th wheel on 2-11. It had an electrical fire under the right slide out on 2-13. ...
Looks like it started at a 110 volt junction at the right frame rail under the right rear slide. Burned the junction as well as the wiring to the slide. Not sure what else was affected."

I checked several on the Molex SPCCs (Self-Contained Power Connector System)on my FW under the LR/Dinette Slide, found some with faulty assembly by the factory, still have several near basement to check.

I was going to add a pict or 2 but recent the photobucket 3rd party hosting $399/yr thing has turned me off online pictures.

[STBRetired]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I adapted a master breaker that senses arcing then shuts down. Forgot their designation. ...

Those are called Arc Fault Circuit Interruptors (AFCI) and can be had at any of the big box hardware stores for about $25 each. When they first came out they used to nuisance trip a lot but they have gotten much better.

Thanks MEX for mentioning this. I have them in the S&B but never thought to put them in the MH.

[phillyg]

myredracer wrote:
Curious - where would you have stranded wire connected to solid on 120 volts? Only place I can think of is the........From what I see online, that particular SCPC Molex connector is listed for #14-12 solid and requires another part no. for stranded wire. Plus, there are 2 different part numbers for stranded wire - one for #14-16 and one for #12. Did the factory use the correct parts? Was the wire stripped properly and were the terminations tight enough.....

Stranded wire feeds the slideout, changing over to Romex at the connector. I didn't take apart the connector, but it appears to be for no. 14 wire, and there's no telling whether they were installed properly inside the connector, although I suspect not.

[myredracer]

road-runner wrote:

myredracer wrote:
Curious - where would you have stranded wire connected to solid on 120 volts?

For the flexible power feed to a slideout.

That makes sense then! I missed that sentence.

We have the same thing but I was unable to find the splice from stranded to solid. There's probably 2 there as well because there is romex at the recept. behind the fridge and no stranded wire that I have found anywhere else. I'm assuming they hid one in the underbelly cavity and the other in the cavity below the fridge. I have no way to look under the fridge without hacking a hole in the floor. If they used those Molex connectors, it's a scary thought and could be an accident in waiting. Definitely a major code violation if splices aren't accessible. I'm planning to take the underbelly down this summer.

[road-runner]

myredracer wrote:
Curious - where would you have stranded wire connected to solid on 120 volts?

For the flexible power feed to a slideout.