Almost Had a Fire Last Night

[phillyg]

Our dog woke my DW last night (I wasn't home), to a haze of smoke and strong electrical smell. The smoke detectors did not activate! She got our 5yr old granddaughter out, along with the dog. DW pulled out the 50a shore power.

DW saw smoke coming up behind the stove and she called the fire dept., which arrived before I did. They found "light" smoke and determined a breaker had tripped. That breaker services the TV and the fridge.

I noticed a strong electrical and plastic smell when I arrived after midnight. The FD couldn't find any active burning and suspected a bad electrical connection, and suggested not connecting back to shore power, with which I wholeheartedly agreed, until we could get to a repair shop.

This morning, we found light soot in the drawers next to the stove so I pulled them and the one under the stove and found a melted 120v connector. It joins the sheaved flexible wire to the solid Romex cable inside the kitchen slideout . The connector was screwed to the floor, along with two other similar ones. I have no idea why it failed, but thankfully, the breaker tripped before it started a fire on the floor or the wall 2" away. Also, the gas line runs right next to the wires. There is a lot of soot within an 8" radius.

I've never seen this type of connector before, and I suspect it's only used in the RV industry. I'm familiar with residential steel or plastic junction boxes; I used a steel box to make the repair. I'll likely get a bigger junction box and eliminate the other two connectors, too. BTW, the FD checked the smoke detectors and they worked. I find it strange that sometimes cooking on the stove trips one of the detectors but last night's smoke did not.

Bottom line: We love our fire safety dog Blu, and are thankful no one was hurt, or worse

[myredracer]

Curious - where would you have stranded wire connected to solid on 120 volts? Only place I can think of is the incoming shore power cable (if cable is the push in the mouse hole type) to romex that goes to the converter/panel which is #10 or under a slide if there's a fridge in it which would be #14.

From what I see online, that particular SCPC Molex connector is listed for #14-12 solid and requires another part no. for stranded wire. Plus, there are 2 different part numbers for stranded wire - one for #14-16 and one for #12. Did the factory use the correct parts? Was the wire stripped properly and were the terminations tight enough?

The problem isn't with these type of connectors or the "self-contained device" receptacles, it's the BAD workmanship at the various RV factories and total lack of inspections and quality control. They can hire one-eyed monkeys with no qualifications of any kind to do the work. The work is *supposed* to comply with the electrical code (NEC or CEC).

In buildings, the electrical code is strictly enforced. The slightest of errors require correction even when safety is not the concern. In some cases an electrician can lose his/her license.

Problem is, with the RV industry, there is nobody you can notify about bad electrical work in your RV even if it is unsafe. There's no local electrical inspector, NFPA rep. or anyone else with authority that can force corrections to be done. So bad connections and other bad workmanship happen over and over in the industry and nobody gives a fig. ANY 120 volt electrical part or device can be rendered unsafe by improper installation. The only organization that has involvement with the manufacturers is the RVIA but they don't have the authority to enforce the NEC or issue penalties.

I've found an endless number of electrical issues in our TT including bad connections, reverse polarity on receptacles and incorrect part applications, and more - both on the AC and DC systems. In our 4th season of this TT, I am still finding electrical issues when I do a mod or fix something. I hesitate to think what horrors are lurking behind the underbelly coroplast. Somewhere under our slide there is a stranded to solid splice for the fridge that is hidden despite a code requirement to be in an accessible location. If I were an electrical inspector looking at our TT, it would be an epic fail... :M

Having spent a whole career in the building construction elec. industry, I am shocked and dismayed with what they do with RV electrical work and was surprised in the beginning to find that there is no oversight by any level of gov't or any safety authority.

If anyone wants piece of mind, I highly recommend going through their RV and check all the splices and terminations they can find both 120 volt and 12 volt.

[down_home]

.............

[Dutch_12078]

I agree, speed boxes are just as bad as those "back stab" outlets often used in residential construction to save time and money. Junk...

[pianotuna]

I replaced all the speed boxes in my RV. What utter junk.

[j-d]

"Molex brand 19045-30"

Jutht ath I suthpethed... Some call them a "Punch Down Box." Really a sketchy design, but I guess the amazing part is how many of them DON'T fail.

As I said, usually the failure is somewhere between inconvenient and perplexing. Providentially, your failure could have been far worse. It got nipped in the but, or at least just starting to blossom into tragedy.

My failed connection was from circuit breaker in a box (not an outlet) that powered the water heater. When I got it apart, I saw that it had lost contact and the white Neutral Wire was scorched along with that terminal in the speed box. I was just glad to find our water heater failure was where I could easily fix it. The fix? I gutted the speed box and used it to house connections made like in our house: Stripped, Twisted Together, Wire Nutted. And for the RV, also Tape Wrapped.

[beemerphile1]

For ultimate safety have one of each type of smoke detector. There are two types.

[phillyg]

Thank you all for your kind words, comments and suggestions. The bad connector is a Molex brand 19045-30. It was too damaged to take apart, but looking at it online, it appears to be a "speed box," and I can easily see how a ham-fisted installer could damage it, resulting in a problem down the road.

I'm going to change to the First Alert dual detectors. BTW, my RVIA sticker is crooked, so they didn't get that right, either.

[wa8yxm]

I have had two of those flexible to solid wire connections fail... Once I redo them,,, they do NOT fail again. (I solder)

[JimK-NY]

I would be concerned about those smoke detectors. A small amount of smoke in an RV should instantly activate the alarms. Mine is just a battery operated residential model. I would replace it for just a few dollars cost. If yours are battery operated you should get in the habit of replacing the batteries at the start of every camping season.

[j-d]

Was the electrical fixture a "speed box" on the order of this?


They're commonly used in mobile homes. Unfortunately (at least in my opinion) that makes them the choice for RV's, what with their construction being similar. Unfortunately again, those Double Wides probably make but ONE road trip, and our RV's make hundreds. Usually, the connection simply fails. Whatever is plugged in or wired through, no longer works. We've had it here recently with dead outlets. Also common, the electric side of the water heater quits and it turns out to be a Speed Box.

Speed Boxes are the same concept as Scotch Locks:



Position the wire over the "teeth" of the connector (Speed Box or Scotch Lock) then Press, Squeeze, Push or Screw. The connector pierces the insulation and makes up against the conductors of the wire to complete the installation/connection.

What could possibly go wrong...?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The proud and efficient members of your rig's assembly line...







HEY WHO FORGOT THE MOTOR, MAN?

[Ralph_Cramden]

Glad everything worked out ok for the OP, scary stuff.

It would behoove anyone to check, or have checked, All the 120v AC wiring on their RV, even if new from the factory.

On our 2017 Rockwood Roo the terminals on the Furrion exterior wall mounted connector for the twist on shore power cord were not tightened, and showed signs of arcing. All of the breakers in the 120v side of the power center including the main, had the square drive heads stripped out from what I assume the use of an impact driver in the factory. These were tightened to the point of smashing the conductors flat. The slightest movement of the conductor then caused them to break. I had to buy all new breakers and replace them. Same thing on the ground and neutral bars, all screws stripped.

I found all of that while installing an EMS 3 days after purchasing the trailer.

That silver RVIA decal thats says the manufacturer certifies that all plumbing, electrical, and HVAC and fire safety comply with some ANSI standard evidently means nothing other than they applied the decal correctly. I contacted Rockwood and the tone of the conversation came across as it was no big deal to them and perhaps I should "take it to my local dealer" for an inspection. I was a little hot by then and had to ask "would you suggest before or after the fire?" Perhaps an inspection in the factory while it was being built may have been a better course of action? Caveat Emptor!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I adapted a master breaker that senses arcing then shuts down. Forgot their designation. They were pricey. A single for Quicksilver and one to eat later. I built that bus exactly like I built the "dragger" trawlers. It sure has paid off. So did bidding on a crate of 20 amp receptacles at Lockheed. Marine nylon units. Twenty dollars bid won 180 receptacles. Jeez those were the days...

[loggenrock]

Totally agree on the dual-sensor smoke detectors. The low cost ionization type that come with RV's are good for fast-burning fires, but a photoelectric sensor is best for the type of smoke smudge you describe. The First Alert detector mentioned above is the model that I added to our rig. ST

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Unless its in Mississippi build a house the same way as an RV and a half hour after the inspector gets done the orange and black CONDEMNED DO NOT ENTER roll of tape wll arrive. It's a disgrace.