aluminum ion battery

[pianotuna]

Energy density about the same as lead acid. 7500 cycle life with rapid charging

aluminum ion

[mlts22]

About a year or two ago, I read about a fuel cell which turned aluminum into aluminum oxide (also called an aluminum-air battery although it is not rechargable). It has a lot of energy density, but has to be replaced (the aluminum oxide has to be put in with the piles of bauxite.) This would be useful for something that puts out watts over time to keep the batteries topped off, in addition to solar.

[pianotuna]

a little video about it:flexible

[MrWizard]

too me "mass" means size/volume, the same cubic inches of Alu will weight less than the same volume of Lead

density is weight.. so the same density, will mean a battery that is physically larger for the same amp hours

lithium has the advantage of more amp hours for less weight in any physical size so far

hopefully the New Alu technology will have cross over characteristics

more power than lead for less weight in the same pkg, with less cost than lithium

[pianotuna]

Hi mlts,

I suspect it will have many of the same attributes as LI--where the battery bank does NOT need to be taken to 100% and where 80%discharges are available.

The depth of discharge essentially increases useable capacity by 30% over the best lead acid formats.

Unfortunately, my oldest bank is now 9 and showing its age, so I guess I'll be looking for cheap 12 volt bats soon enough.

[mlts22]

I'm looking forward to seeing that. If it is the same energy density per volume as lead/acid, then I'd jump to it for safety reasons.

If it has more energy density, it only makes it more attractive.

Even if it had less energy density, for large storage battery applications, this technology will be useful.

I do see a lot of new battery technologies... I just hope something pans out. As of now, we have lead/acid, and lithium. The biggest problem with Li based batteries is that it needs a very sophisticated charge and discharge controller that monitors/controls all amperage/voltage coming in and out. Without this... boom.

[SCVJeff]

Apparently no one saw the actual story on this technology. It's in an engineering lab at a major university. The capacity equals that of a LiPo without the risk of catching fire, and it's CHARGE rate is well over 50C.. I easily pull that on my helicopter, so that's old news for a discharge rate, but charge is apparently a different challenge. They didn't talk any further about the technology since this was a generic news story, but it's absolutely real.

[mena661]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Mex,

Are you saying that Lifeline makes a great AGM battery that survived the "Mex Testing"?

I'd like to know that answer too.

[pianotuna]

Hi Mex,

Are you saying that Lifeline makes a great AGM battery that survived the "Mex Testing"?

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
That's why I am stubborn about the Lifeline.

[BFL13]

I got lost there, but the main thing still seems to be that even if the battery can accept a huge number of amps at 50% SOC,

1. Where can you get a charger that will do that?

2. How big a generator do you need to run such a high amps charger?

3. How can you cart all that around when RVing?

[GordonThree]

pianotuna wrote:
So long as the aluminum batteries can be charged at low temperatures I'll be quite interested.

Fascinating that they can be rapid charged--a cell phone in one minute.

That's a misleading quote that comes up a lot with new batteries.

To recharge a 2500-3000 mAh cell phone battery in a minute, you will need a crazy high amperage charger and a heavy gauge connection to the battery.

Most cell phones charge at 0.5C or 0.25C, half to quarter capacity. So it takes 2-3 hours for a full charge. To charge in 1 hour, 1C (3 amps), 30 min 2C (6 amps), 15 min 4C (12 amps!) , 7.5 minutes 8C (24 AMPS!) etc etc...

What the quote usually means is the test-tube battery charged in less than a minute. What they don't say is the test-tube battery has a capacity of 1 mAh.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

That's why I am stubborn about the Lifeline.

When I did cycle life testing "According to Mex" I discharged the batteries to 3.0 volts @ a 10% total amp hour rate. This discoupled the load banks and enabled constant voltage charge of 14.8 volts which was left on for 24-hours. Energy transactions were recorded. Few battery brands made 50 cycles. Never bring a cat to a dog fight. The Delco Voyager called it quits after six cycles. All six of them. The Trojans and Picos lasted until high thirties early forties. Globe Union batteries did well. Group 24 BCI. A heart stress test is not done by having a patient relax in a Laz Z Boy and exercise a TV remote control. Unfortunately back then the RV car jars had 5% antimony and RV charging system voltage was too high.?

[landyacht318]

There seems to be a new headline about a new emerging battery technology about every 2 weeks.

I'll believe none of them until they can actually make inroads into the electrical storage market, viably.

Until then, these headlines are designed to cause increased Advertising revenue and nothing else, in my opinion.

By all means keep up the research, but the Media's hyping the newest latest and greatest distant hope is based solely on generating revenue.

[pianotuna]

So long as the aluminum batteries can be charged at low temperatures I'll be quite interested.

Fascinating that they can be rapid charged--a cell phone in one minute.

[GordonThree]

I guess "density" would mean mass to a mechanical engineer and energy density to an electronics engineer, at least in the context of a battery?

Curiously, I looked it up - lead and aluminum are about equal, as far as buying it on the stock market - $0.8 to $1 per pound over the last year. I always thought aluminum to be a far more valuable metal.

Maybe these batteries will have merit if the retail costs are similar to AGM or SLA per mass-unit and per energy-unit (whatever they may be 🙂

DEKA - East Penn rates the AGM batteries I bought at a huge number of cycles as well, using 1 cycle = 10% or less discharge with immediate recharge. Personally, my definition of a cycle is 50%-80% discharge, with 6-12 hours elapsed before a recharge.