Battery Cable Crimp Question

[mrekim]

The ring connectors that connect to my battery are the type where you can see the cable strands on the ring side of the connector. If I wiggle the cable, the strands on the ring side move.

My understanding of a good crimp is that the the cable and crimp ring get cold welded together. I would think that a good crimp would not transfer movement through that cold weld, so a slight wiggle on the cable side should not transfer to the ring side.

Is this something I need to pursue further - or am I looking at this wrong?

[SCVJeff]

mena661 wrote:

SCVJeff wrote:
I'm sold on my Chinese 12T hydraulic. It's crimped 4/0 lugs on 2 complete Motorhome hi-current rebuilds complete with solar cabling (well over 40 crimps), and still looks like new.

Which one did you get?

It's a Mic Tools MIC-120. Theres some pix further up

[brulaz]

mrekim wrote:

brulaz wrote:


At the battery end I was also planning to use a copper solderless lug screw clamp connector: SLU70, along with the oxide inhibitor gel they sell.

I'm not sure those connectors are good for stranded wire - especially if it's finely stranded. I think you need one with a plate that prevents the screw from screwing into the wire.
...

Pretty sure the SLU70 clamps the wire between two copper plates.

But it occurs to me that perhaps the biggest problem is exposure. The other screw clamps in the MPPT controller and breaker box are all inside, away from the weather and road dirt. My battery boxes are on the trailer tongue. And already I can see a lot of corrosion on the crimped wires at the battery terminals. They use open lugs.

Maybe I should just get one of the hammer crimpers and a bunch of closed-end lugs and do/redo all those connections.

EDIT: or those Fusion solder lugs.

[mrekim]

brulaz wrote:


At the battery end I was also planning to use a copper solderless lug screw clamp connector: SLU70, along with the oxide inhibitor gel they sell.

I'm not sure those connectors are good for stranded wire - especially if it's finely stranded. I think you need one with a plate that prevents the screw from screwing into the wire.

Here's a compression type connector:



The main issue with the above connector is ensuring it does not come loose - but your proposed connector has the same issue, along with others - like damaging the wire. Another possible issue with the quick cable compression connector is the wire size needs to be correct. You only get so much "squeeze" and a wire diameter that's too small won't work well. I don't know how to check that other than with trial and error.


Here's a solder type connector. There are two possible issue with these. One is having them get hot and the solder melts. I think this can be mitigated by putting the fuse directly on the battery - blue sea sells a battery post fuse. There's also some concern about vibration. I'm not sure how much vibration matters and what the mitigation strategies are.


If you know the exact length you need - you can get custom wires from genuinedealz.com for a reasonable price.



In any case, I suspect that any of the above would be better than the clamp.

[brulaz]

I'm running 6ga (or maybe 8ga if I can route it shorter) wire from my 30A mppt controller (screw clamp connector), to a 30A breaker (screw clamp connector), then to battery. Expect about 25W at 14.4V.

At the battery end I was also planning to use a copper solderless lug screw clamp connector: SLU70, along with the oxide inhibitor gel they sell.

Given that screw clamp connectors are used everywhere else, is using one at the battery such a bad idea? Really can't justify a crimper for just two connections.

[mena661]

SCVJeff wrote:
I'm sold on my Chinese 12T hydraulic. It's crimped 4/0 lugs on 2 complete Motorhome hi-current rebuilds complete with solar cabling (well over 40 crimps), and still looks like new.

Which one did you get?

[SCVJeff]

I'm sold on my Chinese 12T hydraulic. It's crimped 4/0 lugs on 2 complete Motorhome hi-current rebuilds complete with solar cabling (well over 40 crimps), and still looks like new. No scratches, no leaks, no deformations of the dies whatsoever. I wouldn't give it a second thought to buy another..

O yeah.. This one still works..

[MM49]

The automotive crimp specification is USCAR-21. The cross link wire specification is MS-8288. The industry leaders in the automotive field for large crimp tool development are Diamond tool and odyssey tool. They will all be at the wire processing show in Milwaukee on the 14 and 15 of May. All of the industrial suppliers will be there also. The show is free and most supplier give away free samples.
MM49

[mrekim]

DSchmidt_2000 wrote:
I was looking into getting something like that but one off Ebay and likely Chinese made.

I saw one on ebay or amazon that had a part number the same as the Greenlee tool (K09-2GL) or it explicitly said it was a match for it. I found a review that said the crimp head bent when trying to crimp larger lugs so I gave up on that one.

DSchmidt_2000 wrote:
How wide of a crimp does it make?

It looks it's about 5.5 mm or 0.22 inches. For the larger cable you have to do a double crimp.

[DSchmidt_2000]

mrekim wrote:

Mine is red and says Hex Crimp on it, but it's made by Quick Cable and has part number 4255-001 on it.

Here's a photo from the Quick Cable site:

Thanks. I was looking into getting something like that but one off Ebay and likely Chinese made. What has stopped me so far is that the crimp area looks pretty narrow - maybe to help concentrate the force on a smaller area and lessen the actuation force.

How wide of a crimp does it make?

[wa8yxm]

One of the tools I acquried is a good old GB crimper.. normally used for smaller wire like 10 and up) I tried it on some 4GA lugs for an inverter.

Did a rather good job I thought. But then I have large hands (9 key spread on a piano) and fairly strong as well (old farm boy) And I cheated.

I'd not wish to try anything larger with those pliars though.

For 10 ga and smaller wires (10-12-14 ga) I have a die crimp tool, a ratcheting thing that produces a crimp that looks better than many factory crimps I've seen. It is specifically designed for anderson power poles but removing one piece lets me use it on any non-insulated lug of the proper size (Up to 10 ga).

[mrekim]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Bet'cha nickel there are several quintillion oxygen atoms in there.

Could be, hopefully anything trapped is too small to become a problem.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Compression like this is absolutely the next best thing to soldering when adhesive lined (triple wall) heat shrink tubing is used.

That's what I'm hoping.


It seems that there's a consensus out there that soldering has its issues. This description from here is as good a description as any.

Solder is permitted but cannot be the sole means of making the connection. This is because if the connection becomes very hot the solder might melt. Solder also tends to make the end of the wire into a solid wire as it wicks into the stranded conductors. The end of the wire then loses it flexibility and so is more prone to cracking induced by vibration.

What I haven't seen is a good discussion about how to best address the issues mentioned above.

DSchmidt_2000 wrote:
Can you post a picture of the crimp tool you found?

Mine is red and says Hex Crimp on it, but it's made by Quick Cable and has part number 4255-001 on it.

Here's a photo from the Quick Cable site:




Here's a link to the Quick Cable page : Quick Cable Crimpers

This is the one that did not work for BoonHauler, so I realize that I'm taking some risk with this one. I think I can sell it for what I paid pretty quickly and I'm hoping that even if it doesn't work for the largest size it will be fine for sized smaller than 4.0.

[DSchmidt_2000]

mrekim wrote:
I found a used quick cable crimp tool locally. I'm hoping that, even if it doesn't work for 4/0 cable that it will work for smaller sizes.

This seems promising.

Can you post a picture of the crimp tool you found?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Bet'cha nickel there are several quintillion oxygen atoms in there.

But aside from that, your example is a wonderful learning tool. Thank you for the time and effort to demonstrate. Compression like this is absolutely the next best thing to soldering when adhesive lined (triple wall) heat shrink tubing is used.

[mrekim]

I found a used quick cable crimp tool locally. I'm hoping that, even if it doesn't work for 4/0 cable that it will work for smaller sizes.

I got a 4 gauge lug (grey) and some THHN wire for a little test. I crimped using the grey (25) die setting - way too loose - and then the the next smallest setting - labeled 16 - and gave it a shot.

Then I cut with a hack saw and let it sit in vinegar over night to etch. I didn't try to sand/clean up the cuts at all.





This seems promising.

[mrekim]

SCVJeff wrote:
That lug looks like it was hammered or something, but sure doesn't look good? I view that as the excuse to buy the right tool. You will never have that problem again.

Yea, I'm going to buy a tool. My problem is I've had bad luck with the Chinese knockoff tools in the past so I'm reluctant to pull the trigger on these $60 EBay tools.

As soon as you cross them off the list you jump to the $200-$300 range for QuckCable (hex), FTZ (diamond) or Greenlee (hex) all manual (not hydraulic) tools.

And I'm still not sure what lug/cable/tool combinations are compatible.

I'm going to call around on Monday and see if any of the local rental places have something.