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Battle Born Charging

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
This might answer some recent questions.

The table is not accurate wrt to the BB comments--don't go by it by the table itself. Wade through the questions and answers to get the true picture. Takes a while to go through the comments, but that's where the info is.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/charger-compatibility-table/
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.
215 REPLIES 215

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
97-71= 26% and in approx. 70 minutes at about 112 amps is about 131AH. If 26 is 131 then 100 is 504AH (Looking good)

112/504 = 22.2% charging rate.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
I was with you till .22c then you lost me with what ever you're trying to say after that.

It's only 4 years now living off of them everyday, maybe running the generator a dozen times a year for hold over charges. Solar does fine job getting the voltage where it needs to be to charge 3.52+ vpc capacity reset. Even this time of the year the solar is producing 3-5 Kwh daily.

You do not need to push high voltage, high current to charge cells go back and look at the chart I posted.

If the capacity was off like you think it is I would think inverting 235a load at 37% SOC might show a problem. The CPU does fine job keeping track.

12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
Good report! Questions:

1. What is the high DC voltage setting (for Bulk) on the Magnum charger?
2. What is the high DC voltage setting (for Bulk) on the solar controller?

It looks like the two shared the charging amps at about 98 and 14 for the total of about 112 say during Bulk? (The answers to 1 and 2 should explain those proportions somewhat.)

112/500 (if they are still at 500) is a 22% charging rate. That is low for Li so naturally the %SOC that Bulk ends is high. Works the same way with lead acid batts, but not nearly that high for 22%! (see ugly graph posted a while back on that topic)

BB says their batts should be charged at a max of 50% charging rate The Li graph earlier showed that with a 100% charging rate, Bulk ends at 65%.

If you want to use end of Bulk as your marker when to stop charging and you want that to be at 80%, you would have to experiment with your own set-up to find the charging rate that will do that. Might be near 50% based on these results.

Now you need a way to regulate the amps at the desired charging voltage say 14.4v. Not so easy! In real life you have to pick the size of charger(s) in amps rating and be sure the generator can run that many amps.

On solar, amps are usually comparatively low and they vary during the day. That means you can't use amps starting to taper as your marker for end of Bulk and anyway that will be at almost 100% at low amps charging rate.

So on solar alone, no gen/charger, howinheck are you going to know you are at 80% SOC? And then what if it happens at 3PM? Do you have a way to turn off the solar for the rest of the day?

You can use end of Bulk as your marker if you have an ammeter to spot when amps start to taper. You can't use voltage because of voltage drop with high amps. You could use voltage (sort of) with low amps charging rate as with solar--close enough for this job--80% does not have to be exact!
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
BFL13 wrote:
Itinerant1 wrote:
Those setting are basically for all lfp batteries not just BB. Depends on the voltage needed for balancing cells.

I've been using Bulk 14.1v, 14.2v absorb (10 minutes), float 13.6v for almost 4 years now with everyday use.


You have posted that the Absorption Stage for Li does not start till at a high SOC compared with Wets and AGMs.

The BB advice keeps referring to a full charge, but there is also talk of only operating at 80% and under. So when saying they want a charge rate of half AH capacity (which is a lot) or less, and an Absorption time of 20-30 minutes to get to full, does that compute?

IE will that "extra" half hour at 14.4 once amps start to taper get you to full?

Your 10 minutes would then get you from whatever SOC Bulk ends at (95%?) to part way closer to full, but this is still way over 80%?

It is hard to figure out what the "rules of thumb" really are for

1.when camping and
2. for getting to true full and
3. when you should go to full and not stay in the operating zone of SOCs.
---
"Here are our (BB's) charging parameters for our batteries:

Bulk/absorb 14.2 โ€“ 14.6 Volts(14.4 is great)
float 13.6 Volts or lower
No equalization(or set it to 14.4v), no temperature compensation and absorption time is 20-30 minutes per battery(if its an option)."


It's overcast here in AZ today with rain in the forecast this afternoon and for the next 3 days. I hooked up the eu2200i generator and set the incoming AC to 13 amps, 120Vac/ 60Hz was constant the entire time. The generator was not in echo mode at any point. There was a some help from solar but not whole lot.

I recorded the times in 15 minutes increments until 10:00 then recorded the readings at capacity % changes which you can see voltage/ current starts to change pretty fast.

The voltage readings don't match exactly, the CPU/EMS use xx.xx voltage and the Magnum uses xx.x voltage

Hopefully this isn't to confusing, orange colored area is generator time, blue is solar after generator.


The Magnum columns labeled inverting would be charging while the generator is hooked but inverting after solar takes over. I use this excel sheet to record the system over time.

These are the displays I get readings from.

12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
"while the other attribute is just how fast the battery can recharge, even with marginal harvesting..."

Ah yes...the true benifit of LFP and if it doesn't fully charge no big deal if your partial charge will get you through to the next sunrise.;)
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
Itinerant1 wrote:
Let's us know your thoughts and use once you get going.

I haven't seen any reviews for Aims batteries in my surfing.


Upon a re-read, Iโ€™ll also add to my previous that during his accidental battery run down to 06% SOC (with compressor running!) the voltage had remained 12.x (cant now remember to the exact tenth)... He has since added a second battery for extended camping...

Though a bit costly (at least in the shorter term...) this kind of empirical (though accidental- lol) test result was something truly to behold, while the other attribute is just how fast the battery can recharge, even with marginal harvesting...

Certainly not for everybody, but upon nearing GC replacement time and witnessing the above, I decided to make the switch :E

steveh27
Explorer
Explorer
Itinerant1 wrote:
13.3v resting seems to be a fully charged battery for storage. Even though BB says to fully charge their battery for storage there are white papers that have shown irreversible capacity loss when this is done, also temperature during this storage period of time contributes damage.

Link below for Calendar Aging and Lifetimes of LiFePO4 Batteries and Considerations for Repurposing. Downloadable pdf, it's not a short read.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/1...


I did run some 12volt lights off the batteries when I brought them inside to drain some of their charge. I let them run for a day, so they aren't at full charge. Maybe close, hard to tell.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
Let's us know your thoughts and use once you get going.

I haven't seen any reviews for Aims batteries in my surfing.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
Itinerant1 wrote:
Congrats. A nice steady voltage during use, quick charge time.

440w with 200a should work nicely.


Thanks, Iโ€™m looking forward to retiring my faithful GCโ€™s, but will take it a step at a time...Canโ€™t say that Iโ€™m too awfully impressed with the available Li charger solutions, but it appears that so long as I donโ€™t try to wring out every last amp/hr and donโ€™t store away fully charged, all should be well...

FWIW, my neighbor inadvertently ran his Coleman 11kbtu Mach 1 P.S. A/C from only one 12v 100a Lifepo4 all the way down to a lowly 06% SOC (augmented with 400w solar) before it came to his attention, and even this happened without a glitch !!...

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
Congrats. A nice steady voltage during use, quick charge time.

440w with 200a should work nicely.

Edit:

I just came across this for the PD9245 (what you have?)

PD9245CV 9200 - The full rated load is available for load, battery charging or both. When functioning as a regulated
battery charger the converter has a nominal voltage. output of 13.6 VDC for 12 volt models. The system is designed to sense voltage on the battery and automatically selects one of three operating modes (normal, boost and storage) to provide the correct charge level to the batteries.

BOOST MODE: If the converter senses that the
battery voltage has dropped below a preset level the output voltage is increased to approximately 14.4 VDC to rapidly recharge the battery.

NORMAL MODE: Output voltage set at approximately 13.6 VDC.

STORAGE MODE: When the converter senses that
there has been no significant battery usage for 30 hours the output voltage is reduced to 13.2 VDC for minimal water usage. When in storage mode the microprocessor automatically increases the output voltage to 14.4 VDC for approximately 15 minutes every 21 hours to help prevent sulfation of the battery plates.


If you stay out of the storage mode it doesn't look so bad as a charger.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
Itinerant1 wrote:
3 tons wrote:

Just got my 200a/hr Lifepo4 today, so this info is very timely indeed !!


Did you go with BB or another brand?


Got a good buy on a single Aims (cylindrical cell - 68 lbs)...Per the great info (heads up!) in the links BLF provided, after the install I think Iโ€™ll start off by charging manually using my existing PD9245 and charge wizard in the boost, and monitor via the LinkLite to see what happens...With 200a/hr Li in a truck camper, I see little need for excursions throughout the batts entire 0-100% SOC range...

At present, the โ€˜off the shelfโ€™ Lifepo4 chargers (actually, over-chargers??) donโ€™t look all too appealing to me (no standardized convention), but since Li batts charge super fast, augmented with 440w solar I donโ€™t think itโ€™ll take a whole lot of battery tending to stay within a usable and more practical SOC range...

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
I was kidding about the meters of course. They have a spread of voltages representing an SOC level.

The range hood four- light in an RV is set for 12.7 being full and yellow is about 50% (12.2) But eg, my AGMs are 13 full resting and 12.4 at 50%. Not sure about Li voltages. What does the 12.8 mean with the Trilliums anyway?

You can't calibrate those meters to change their voltage ranges per colour of light.

What happens with the Trillium gauge for reading with resting, loaded, and being charged voltages? Maybe that is why they have such a wide spread of estimated SOC. Useless?
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
Those SoC meters are better than nothing but a properly synced digital readout would be best. The dropins with bluetooth that give all the internal readout are nice/ convenient.

Those meter styles you ask about are used on my EGO lithium battery cell for the weedwacker which is pretty cheesy but something is better than nothing.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
Which is the best meter for Li? ๐Ÿ™‚

A. Range hood four light
B. Trillium SOC Gauge
C. This thing:

http://www.wegosolar.com/products.php?product=MidNite-Solar-Battery-Capacity-Meter-MN%252dBCM
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

Itinerant1
Explorer
Explorer
13.3v resting seems to be a fully charged battery for storage. Even though BB says to fully charge their battery for storage there are white papers that have shown irreversible capacity loss when this is done, also temperature during this storage period of time contributes damage.

Link below for Calendar Aging and Lifetimes of LiFePO4 Batteries and Considerations for Repurposing. Downloadable pdf, it's not a short read.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/1...
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.