Can I move a GFCI receptacle?

[martipr]

The GFCI receptacle with the reset button in my TT is buried behind the television in the cabinet. Is there any problem with swapping it with one of the more accessible GFCI receptacle?

[joebedford]

AFAIK a GFCI receptacle works equally well in any location on the circuit i.e. it DOESN'T have to be first in the circuit.

[Bobbo]

martipr wrote:
My TT has 4 GFCI outlets only one of which has a reset button.

If it doesn't have a reset button, it isn't a GFCI outlet. It may be a square face, but it still isn't a GFCI outlet.

The 3 outlets without the reset button are probably protected by the single outlet with the reset button.

[wnjj]

martipr wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the replies. However all I want to do is swap the outlets, nor rebuild the AC system. If it can't be done that simply then I will just live with the inconvenience of the reset being hidden behind the TV

Is the TV set receptacle causing the tripping or some other (i.e. outside) receptacle doing it?

My suggestion was to leave the existing one behind the TV, but rewire so that the downstream receptacles are NOT connected to the "load" terminals, THEN adding another GFCI on the next one in line. This way all receptacles are protected but if the nuisance trips are caused by anything but the TV receptacle, it's easy to reset. No new boxes or Romex required, just one new GFCI receptacle.

[Sprink-Fitter]

My gues is there is one GFCI outlet and the others downstream are just outlets with a rectangle face instead of normal outlets.

[Rick_Jay]

martipr wrote:
My TT has 4 GFCI outlets only one of which has a reset button.

Ok, we have a terminology problem. You have ONE GFCI outlet and 3 others which are protected by it downstream. If you put this GFCI in place of one of the other protected outlets, then the current outlet behind the TV will NOT be protected and only those outlets downstream of it's new location will be protected (assuming you wire it in correctly).

What you want to do is not difficult, but if you are not comfortable or familiar with 120VAC wiring, I would recommend you pass on doing this. If you don't wire it in properly, you can leave numerous outlets which are now protected without protection.

But if you want to try it, I'd recommend relocating the current GFCI to as convenient of a place as possible near it's current location. Then install a traditional outlet in the current GFCI location. This new outlet and the original protected outlets should all be downstream of the new GFCI location.

Good Luck,

~Rick

[martipr]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. However all I want to do is swap the outlets, nor rebuild the AC system. If it can't be done that simply then I will just live with the inconvenience of the reset being hidden behind the TV

[martipr]

Rick Jay wrote:
martipr,

Perhaps I'm a bit thick here...but I don't fully understand the reasoning behind swapping one GFCI for another GFCI outlet? Is that what you're asking, or are you asking about swapping the GFCI outlet (the one with the test/reset buttons) with a regular outlet? There should only be one GFCI outlet (with buttons) on any branch circuit. If you have two, then you most likely have GFCI protection on 2 different electrical circuit branches. Or am I misreading your posts?

If I may tie some pieces together, some of this has been said and you may already know the rest, but just in case...

When a GFCI outlet is installed it can be wired in such a way that only that outlet is protected or such that it and all outlets "downstream" are protected. Any outlets between the breaker panel and the GFCI will not be ground fault protected. Usually, they should be installed in a location where it's easy to reach/test/reset. Apparently yours doesn't sound like it is.

If you're not sure which outlets are protected by this outlet, you can buy one of these GFCI Testers at most hardware stores and use it to see which outlets trip the GFCI and which do not.

If you can find the wires feeding this GFCI, another options is to install a more readily accessible outlet upstream of this GFCI so that it will be easier to test & reset.(They should be tested every month. They are known to fail.) Wire it in so all of the downstream outlets are protected as well.

Someone else mentioned installing a GFCI breaker in your main panel. That should also be an option, you just have to know the manufacturer of your panel and take a trip to an electrical supply shop or large hardware store and pickup what you need. I'd probably recommend bringing one of your current breakers with you to make sure you get the proper breaker.

As a side note, I've always found it interesting that motorhome manufacturers have such confidence in their roof structure and sealing procedures that they see the need to GFCI protect the outlets up front above the cab area. One of our first camping trips, we were watching the TV at night and all of a sudden the TV/DVD player shut down. I checked the main panel in the motorhome, checked the power at the pedastal. All was good. Then it occurred to me, our then 4 year old daughter was on the potty, and apparently the red & black GFCI buttons on the outlet were too tempting to resist. So, lesson learned. Thought it odd our rig was wired that way, but apparently many are.

Good Luck,

~Rick

My TT has 4 GFCI outlets only one of which has a reset button. That one is hidden in the back of the entertainment center behind the TV. I want to put a GFCI outlet without a reset in that position and put the GfCI outlet with reset in the more accesable location. I assume the outlet behind the TV is a GFCI because it is on the wall behind the shower so I don't want to put a standard outlet there.

[myredracer]

Swap out the recept. behind the MW with a non-GFCI one. Then install a GFCI recept. next to the converter panel and redirect the branch circuit romex to run to the new recept. along with a new short piece of romex between the new recept. and panel.

If no space for a recept. next to the panel but there is space nearby, you could always install a junction box and extend the romex as needed.

Even *if* a GFCI breaker would fit in the panel, they cost a lot more than a GFCI recept.

[TucsonJim]

" Then it occurred to me, our then 4 year old daughter was on the potty, and apparently the red & black GFCI buttons on the outlet were a too tempting to resist. So, lesson learned."

That's a classic! Made me laugh. Thanks!

[Rick_Jay]

martipr,

Perhaps I'm a bit thick here...but I don't fully understand the reasoning behind swapping one GFCI for another GFCI outlet? Is that what you're asking, or are you asking about swapping the GFCI outlet (the one with the test/reset buttons) with a regular outlet? There should only be one GFCI outlet (with buttons) on any branch circuit. If you have two, then you most likely have GFCI protection on 2 different electrical circuit branches. Or am I misreading your posts?

If I may tie some pieces together, some of this has been said and you may already know the rest, but just in case...

When a GFCI outlet is installed it can be wired in such a way that only that outlet is protected or such that it and all outlets "downstream" are protected. Any outlets between the breaker panel and the GFCI will not be ground fault protected. Usually, they should be installed in a location where it's easy to reach/test/reset. Apparently yours doesn't sound like it is.

If you're not sure which outlets are protected by this outlet, you can buy one of these GFCI Testers at most hardware stores and use it to see which outlets trip the GFCI and which do not.

If you can find the wires feeding this GFCI, another options is to install a more readily accessible outlet upstream of this GFCI so that it will be easier to test & reset.(They should be tested every month. They are known to fail.) Wire it in so all of the downstream outlets are protected as well.

Someone else mentioned installing a GFCI breaker in your main panel. That should also be an option, you just have to know the manufacturer of your panel and take a trip to an electrical supply shop or large hardware store and pickup what you need. I'd probably recommend bringing one of your current breakers with you to make sure you get the proper breaker.

As a side note, I've always found it interesting that motorhome manufacturers have such confidence in their roof structure and sealing procedures that they see the need to GFCI protect the outlets up front above the cab area. One of our first camping trips, we were watching the TV at night and all of a sudden the TV/DVD player shut down. I checked the main panel in the motorhome, checked the power at the pedastal. All was good. Then it occurred to me, our then 4 year old daughter was on the potty, and apparently the red & black GFCI buttons on the outlet were too tempting to resist. So, lesson learned. Thought it odd our rig was wired that way, but apparently many are.

Good Luck,

~Rick

[enblethen]

Yes, only certain receptacles have to e GFCI protected. The location of the actual GFCI receptacle is not stated. It can be any where to protect the required receptacles. The Manufacturer chose the location for ease of installation. Is this case location is not the best!

[martipr]

aruba5er wrote:
the trouble with moving it somewhere else is usually the regular outlets are not installed in a box. The gfci needs to be because they need regular mounting unlike the vampire bite outlets used in the rest of the rv.. And if your rv is anything like mine, most of the breakers are 1/2" or doubles so installing a gfci breaker may not be possible. I guess you'll have to tough it out. Buy a newer one. The older ones were very unrelible by todays standards

Thanks for replying, however please read my original post. I am asking about swapping with another GFCI outlet, not a regular outlet.

[kellertx5er]

enblethen wrote:
Yes, there is issues with moving it. The GFCI receptacle must be the first in the circuit.
One way is to install a GFCI breaker in the 120 volt distribution panel.

Not correct. The NEC does not require an entire circuit to be protected unless it is the only branch circuit. When more than one circuit exists, GFCI protection is only required in certain areas such as bathrooms, kitchen, exterior, etc. A receptacle in a TV cabinet does not have to be protected. Moving the GFCI to the next recptacle downstream is acceptable as wnjj suggests.

[aruba5er]

the trouble with moving it somewhere else is usually the regular outlets are not installed in a box. The gfci needs to be because they need regular mounting unlike the vampire bite outlets used in the rest of the rv.. And if your rv is anything like mine, most of the breakers are 1/2" or doubles so installing a gfci breaker may not be possible. I guess you'll have to tough it out. Buy a newer one. The older ones were very unrelible by todays standards

[Sprink-Fitter]

martipr wrote:
The GFCI receptacle with the reset button in my TT is buried behind the television in the cabinet. Is there any problem with swapping it with one of the more accessible GFCI receptacle?

I thought all GFCI receptacles had a reset button?