Can't user 5er again this winter - replace red goo in pipes?

[joebedford]

For various reasons my RV won't be used again this winter. It was winterized a year ago. Does the alcohol evaporate (to where I don't know)?

Should I replace the RV antifreeze before the second winter stored outside in Canada?

[ktmrfs]

Terryallan wrote:

joebedford wrote:
OP here:

My lines are PEX.

I'm aware that I should put some more in the P-traps etc.

I just don't know if the alcohol can get through PEX somehow.

You have already removed the water from the system. Water is what freezes. You have absolutely no reason to do anything else to the system. There is NOTHING in it to freeze.
lock the doors and forget about it. It is as safe now as it was last winter. Don't make this harder than it has to be.

agreed, once water is out of the LINES nothing to worry about in the water lines. HOWEVER you still MUST put some RV antifreeze in ALL the Ptraps or you risk having ruptured p traps.

[Terryallan]

joebedford wrote:
OP here:

My lines are PEX.

I'm aware that I should put some more in the P-traps etc.

I just don't know if the alcohol can get through PEX somehow.

You have already removed the water from the system. Water is what freezes. You have absolutely no reason to do anything else to the system. There is NOTHING in it to freeze.
lock the doors and forget about it. It is as safe now as it was last winter. Don't make this harder than it has to be.

[fj12ryder]

Bobbo wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

Fizz wrote:
We seem to go through this discussion every year.

Antifreeze is not used to protect the plumbing. It is used to flush out the water, the only liquid that expands when frozen.

Lets put the urban myth about water being the only liquid that expands when frozen. Amongst the elements the following are a few that are less dense as solids than liquids. (e.g. expand when solidifying)

gallium, silicon, germanium, bismuth, plutonium.

another very very very common compound that relies on the solid being less dense than the liquid is type metal used in printing. That way there are no voids in the type when it is solidified. (an alloy of antimony and tin)

another compound that is less dense as a solid is acetic acid.

While the vast majority of materials are more dense as solid vs. liquid there are many exceptions, water being probably the most common.

While you are technically correct, none of those substances are/will be in any RV plumbing. Ever. Most of them are solids at any temperature that is conducive to life. Other than being pedantic, your post is completely immaterial to the subject at hand.

Nothing wrong with rebutting a blatantly wrong statement.

[wa8yxm]

I like the blow the lines out suggestion. in fact that's how I wintereized after the first winter and playing 7734 getting all the pink **** out of the system.

I figured if the air ever freezes... I won't be worried about the RV.

[Bobbo]

ktmrfs wrote:

Fizz wrote:
We seem to go through this discussion every year.

Antifreeze is not used to protect the plumbing. It is used to flush out the water, the only liquid that expands when frozen.

Lets put the urban myth about water being the only liquid that expands when frozen. Amongst the elements the following are a few that are less dense as solids than liquids. (e.g. expand when solidifying)

gallium, silicon, germanium, bismuth, plutonium.

another very very very common compound that relies on the solid being less dense than the liquid is type metal used in printing. That way there are no voids in the type when it is solidified. (an alloy of antimony and tin)

another compound that is less dense as a solid is acetic acid.

While the vast majority of materials are more dense as solid vs. liquid there are many exceptions, water being probably the most common.

While you are technically correct, none of those substances are/will be in any RV plumbing. Ever. Most of them are solids at any temperature that is conducive to life. Other than being pedantic, your post is completely immaterial to the subject at hand.

[ktmrfs]

Boon Docker wrote:
Strangely the freezing point of ethylene glycol drops dramatically when water is added to it.

sort of. the freezing point of the combination drops until you get to about 70/30 antifreeze/water. then the freezing point begins to rise again. Luckily the turnover freezing temp is around -70F,

pure ethalyne glycol freezes at about 10F.

[Boon_Docker]

Strangely the freezing point of ethylene glycol drops dramatically when water is added to it.

[ktmrfs]

joebedford wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:
Once the water's gone, it doesn't matter anymore.

Isn't there a lot of water in the antifreeze?

pure antifreeze is either ethelyne glycol or propalyne glycol. RV is propalyne glycol based (safe for consumption, used in many food items). in pure form no water, and while the freezing point of ethalyne glycol is high (around 10F) it contracts when frozen s no pipe issue, while propalyne glycol has a freezing point around -70F.

Now lots of the RV antifreeze says it turns "slushy" somewhat below 0F or so therefore I suspect it is around 25% propalyne glycol from freezing charts I've seen.

Now some does contain alcohol.

[joebedford]

TurnThePage wrote:
Once the water's gone, it doesn't matter anymore.

Isn't there a lot of water in the antifreeze?

[Fizz]

Once again Fizz bows out and fades away.
After 20 yrs he should know better than try to answer a simple question and leave it to the experts.

[ktmrfs]

Fizz wrote:
We seem to go through this discussion every year.

Antifreeze is not used to protect the plumbing. It is used to flush out the water, the only liquid that expands when frozen.

Lets put the urban myth about water being the only liquid that expands when frozen. Amongst the elements the following are a few that are less dense as solids than liquids. (e.g. expand when solidifying)

gallium, silicon, germanium, bismuth, plutonium.

another very very very common compound that relies on the solid being less dense than the liquid is type metal used in printing. That way there are no voids in the type when it is solidified. (an alloy of antimony and tin)

another compound that is less dense as a solid is acetic acid.

While the vast majority of materials are more dense as solid vs. liquid there are many exceptions, water being probably the most common.

[Boon_Docker]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Boon Docker wrote:
I'll see your one :R and raise you two :R:R

Thanks for the science.

You can be as sarcastic (and perhaps insensitive to others) if you like.

That's funny! 🙂

[TurnThePage]

As already pointed out multiple times, the antifreeze simply displaces any water in the pipes. Once the water's gone, it doesn't matter anymore. You don't need to add more antifreeze.

I use antifreeze to winterize, then drain it. That way that evil chemical taste/smell doesn't have time to penetrate into the lines. Though it's probably just fine, I can't bring myself to trust just blowing out the lines.

[Gdetrailer]

Boon Docker wrote:
I'll see your one :R and raise you two :R:R

Thanks for the science.

You can be as sarcastic (and perhaps insensitive to others) if you like.

Truth is, plastic of any type can and does absorb minute amounts of odor/taste particles from the fluids contained within.

Once cleared of the offending material, there will be small trace amounts left which over time will now leach back into the desired material.

In the case of RV antifreeze, yes, the plastic does absorb trace amounts while it is in there.

Yes, you can remove and flush with copious amounts of water to the point you might not be able to taste or detect.. BUT, there are folks who will still detect the trace amounts that are still there even with copious amounts of flushing.

My DW is hyper sensitive to chemical odors which does cause severe Asthma attacks. She developed a hyper sensitivity to chemical odors in the last 5 yrs, have find and use no/low odor detergents/softener for clothes, low odor dish soap, hand soap, hand cream, absolutely no perfumes what so ever. Gets even more sensitive to something silly like taking a shower..

I for one refuse to add something to the water system that has the potential for leaving trace amounts of chemical odors. Not to mention requires considerable amount of wasted water in flushing the RV antifreeze out to the point I can't detect it.

So, I do not and will not add RV antifreeze to my RV water system. Instead I use nothing but air pressure to blow the lines out. This method has worked for me very well for the 20 winters that I have had RVs..

People are so scared of leaving trace amounts of water in the lines, trace amounts are OK as long as there is plenty of air space for the water to expand when it freezes. The expansion is the issue and as long as you allow air space it won't bust anything.

Interestingly enough, this yr as I was doing my winterizing, I decided to crack open the line on the water pump after blowing out the water.. That connection was BONE DRY. Not one trace of water existed in the line to the pump nor inside the pump.. The air blowing past the connection created enough vacuum to pull the water out of the line connecting to the pump..

Once again.. "Science".