Champion Generator not even close to rated output

[CapnCampn]

Continued from here:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29788443/gotomsg/29792553.cfm#29792553

I have a Champion Non-inverter 3500/4000W generator that isn't putting out it's rated output - I've tried running 2 1500W electric heaters on it, and it will bog down and die.

The Gen is model C46540

I did email Champion about the issue, and they had me run electrical checks on the generator side - everything seemed ok, so it appears to them (and me) that it's an engine/hp issue.

I'm at about 2500ft, and they say that the generator will be down about 300 watts at this altitude, so should sustain 3200 watts.
My testing was done with a kill-a-watt and various combos of hi/low settings on the heaters As BFL found, once you get a ways above 1500W, the kill-a-watt starts to complain. I think all the numbers in the table below were from the Kill-a-Watt.

I tested the output with a couple of electric heaters plugged into a power strip using the 5-20R receptacle (not the TT30).

This was at the end of a 40' 12Ga extension cord (it was raining a bit so I wanted to be under cover), using the Kill-a-Watt & combinations of 2 electric heaters with hi/lo settings.

Watts Volts Hz
21 119 64
750 117 61
1220 116 59
1370 116 59
1420 116 59
1930 115 58
2050 115 58
2330 113 56

At the 2300W range, the engine on the generator was working really hard, and starting to lug - you can see this in the frequency column. At one point, it was about to die, and the kill-a-watt actually reset. I turned off a heater before the engine died though.

I feel that this load shouldn't be a problem since it is only ~66% of the generator's rated output, and these are mostly resistive loads (both heaters have small fans of course).

The temp was ~60 degrees, and I am at 2700ft elevation.
I thought maybe it had something to do with using only the 5-20R, but the schematic in the manual shows that both 120V outlets are paralleled, so they should be able to provide the same power, limited by the receptacle specs. The engine/generator shouldn't care which one is being used.

From the engine side, the gas is not new, but has had stabilizer in it, and the oil only has about 2 hours on it. I think I adjusted the valves the spring before last, but I can’t remember for sure. The Spark arrester is clean.

I'm not sure what else to check at this point. Generally it does what I want it to do, but it's a little disappointing that it won't do at least 3KW.

[Edd505]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Old saying "YA Get What YA Pay For"

Two Champions for the price of one Honda??

[Cummins12V98]

Old saying "YA Get What YA Pay For"

[MrWizard]

You will only get 2400 watts from the 20 amp receptacle, if you want to utilize the maximum output of the generator us the 30 amp outlet. I have the same generator and it runs 2 of the heaters you spec’ed out without issue. Make a pigtail that goes from the 30 amp outlet to the typical 20 amp receptacle.
Good luck!

Do try this

i was able to do more than 2700VA on a Champion 3000 inverter genset running A/C at 105* F

and yes you MIGHT need to adjust the voltage regulator and the HZ
adjust HZ by adjusting the governor spring on the carb throttle arm

set that 62hz unloaded a meter but no electric loads
then check the unloaded voltage 122-124 is about right for unloaded

[Edd505]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Hint a "standard flat blade screw driver will NOT properly fit the jet up that narrow passage way because they "flare" out. Using a small blade screwdriver might damage the jet. Buy a cheap screwdriver and the grind the sides so that there is no flare. Or buy a carburetor jet screwdriver.

Here's another hint: With a straight sided short screw driver the jet can be changed removing the side cover & float bowl. Carefully remove and reuse the float bowl gasket, being sure its seated in the groove before you tighten the float bowl. PS: I do not have the fuel cut off solenoid, I just turned off the fuel valve. From the picture I think a short Phillips would work also.

[road-runner]

BFL13 wrote:
First suspect is the use of the extension cord(s). I found they increase the "load" as seen by the "source".

Only if the measurement is at the far end of the cord. I doubt that the wire itself could lose so much power, but throw in a high resistance connection or two, and maybe there's a significant unintended heater thrown into the mix. Good catch on this.

Mexicowanderer wrote:
Personally I have never seen an Asian product that will live up to it's boasting. ("5,000 watts as measured at the shores of the Dead Sea"

I could agree with this for the majority of the products, with the eu3000i being one of several exceptions. Unlike the eu2000i, it has a beefier than barely necessary engine that wouldn't be anywhere close to its limits at the Dead Sea. I don't own one but believe this to be true based on specs and owner reports.

[bg71361]

CapnCampn wrote:
Continued from here:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29788443/gotomsg/29792553.cfm#29792553

I have a Champion Non-inverter 3500/4000W generator that isn't putting out it's rated output - I've tried running 2 1500W electric heaters on it, and it will bog down and die.

The Gen is model C46540

I did email Champion about the issue, and they had me run electrical checks on the generator side - everything seemed ok, so it appears to them (and me) that it's an engine/hp issue.

I'm at about 2500ft, and they say that the generator will be down about 300 watts at this altitude, so should sustain 3200 watts.
My testing was done with a kill-a-watt and various combos of hi/low settings on the heaters As BFL found, once you get a ways above 1500W, the kill-a-watt starts to complain. I think all the numbers in the table below were from the Kill-a-Watt.

I tested the output with a couple of electric heaters plugged into a power strip using the 5-20R receptacle (not the TT30).

This was at the end of a 40' 12Ga extension cord (it was raining a bit so I wanted to be under cover), using the Kill-a-Watt & combinations of 2 electric heaters with hi/lo settings.

Watts Volts Hz
21 119 64
750 117 61
1220 116 59
1370 116 59
1420 116 59
1930 115 58
2050 115 58
2330 113 56

At the 2300W range, the engine on the generator was working really hard, and starting to lug - you can see this in the frequency column. At one point, it was about to die, and the kill-a-watt actually reset. I turned off a heater before the engine died though.

I feel that this load shouldn't be a problem since it is only ~66% of the generator's rated output, and these are mostly resistive loads (both heaters have small fans of course).

The temp was ~60 degrees, and I am at 2700ft elevation.
I thought maybe it had something to do with using only the 5-20R, but the schematic in the manual shows that both 120V outlets are paralleled, so they should be able to provide the same power, limited by the receptacle specs. The engine/generator shouldn't care which one is being used.

From the engine side, the gas is not new, but has had stabilizer in it, and the oil only has about 2 hours on it. I think I adjusted the valves the spring before last, but I can’t remember for sure. The Spark arrester is clean.

I'm not sure what else to check at this point. Generally it does what I want it to do, but it's a little disappointing that it won't do at least 3KW.

You will only get 2400 watts from the 20 amp receptacle, if you want to utilize the maximum output of the generator us the 30 amp outlet. I have the same generator and it runs 2 of the heaters you spec’ed out without issue. Make a pigtail that goes from the 30 amp outlet to the typical 20 amp receptacle.
Good luck!

[2112]

Watts Volts Hz
21 119 64
750 117 61

Remove the cover of the generator head. You will find the voltage regulator with a blue adjustment potentiometer. Adjust that to 125V unloaded.

1930 115 58
2050 115 58
2330 113 56

A Kill-A-Watt meter is only good to 1875W (15A). I'm surprised you didn't blow the internal 15A fuse. 2330W at 113V resistive load is over 20A.

[jplante4]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

EDIT : Newer small engines are set to run right on the edge of "too lean" in order to meet emissions. I would install the high altitude jet any way.

If it's running lean at sea level, an increase in altitude will enrichen the mixture.

[BFL13]

And yet my China-built B&S gen is right on with its 1700w rating and what I see on the Kill-A-Watt (not sure where it is made!)

And all my China-built PowerMax converter/chargers are right on the money for their specs. As is my China-built PowerMax 2000w PSW inverter.

On the PowerMax, and I suspect all other brands, the USA boss who buys them from the Chinese, is very strict about them meeting the requirements he demands for the products to go on sale to his customers. The USA boss knows the "buck" (some kind of knife ISTR) stops with him, not with the Chinese.

Of course not being so worried about "made in USA" (not "Usa", Japan as in the 1930s' scam on that), I am maybe more relaxed about it all 🙂

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Personally I have never seen an Asian product that will live up to it's boasting. ("5,000 watts as measured at the shores of the Dead Sea"

I know damned well as 12.7 metric fastener will snap where a Cat grade 8 will laugh and keep on going.

OEM says "12 volt LED" I can over-heat sink it 500% use pure silver compound and regulate it to 12.000 volts and watch the amperage start climbing.

Size 12 shoes are perfect
For size 11 feet

XXL is fine for my eldest grand daughter. Overtop a blouse and sweater.
XXXL works me me.

Buy sweatpants. XXL. Fits to 38" waist with a 48" inseam.

Take specifications with half a teaspoon of rock salt.

[theoldwizard1]

CapnCampn wrote:

Watts Volts Hz

1930 115 58
2050 115 58
2330 113 56

You need to increase the RPM a little. You want to be at 60 Hz maybe even 62 Hz.

You will probably have to bend the governor arm to adjust the speed.

I still don't think that you will achieve 3000W continuous.

EDIT : Newer small engines are set to run right on the edge of "too lean" in order to meet emissions. I would install the high altitude jet any way. Instructions and part numbers on page 2 Champion high altitude jet

Hint a "standard flat blade screw driver will NOT properly fit the jet up that narrow passage way because they "flare" out. Using a small blade screwdriver might damage the jet. Buy a cheap screwdriver and the grind the sides so that there is no flare. Or buy a carburetor jet screwdriver.

[BFL13]

First suspect is the use of the extension cord(s). I found they increase the "load" as seen by the "source".