Champion voltage fluctuation

LittleBill wrote:
actually it appears roys photo's are wrong, that is not a Honda sine wave on the top, not sure. link below has a sine wave capture of a honda

I'll agree. My eu2000i output isn't anywhere that dirty looking.

Edit: Guess it got fixed. The referenced eu2000i photo looks fine now.

LittleBill wrote:

RoyB wrote:
Looking at these waveform using an oscilloscope will scare you big time...

My Honda high dollar 2KW EU2000i 120VAC WAVEFORM looks like this


Looking on google of champion generator waveforms shows a whole different waveform being generated.





If the waveforms are not pure then the AC VOLTAGE will show up on the AC DIGITAL VOLTMETERs bouncing all over the place. These type of WAVEFORMS usually clears up somewhat when being more loaded down.

Any SQUARE WAVE components showing up in the envelope is what really is bad for AC appliances... Something that looks like this may do harm to AC APPLIANCES


All WAVEFORMs from GOOGLE Search

These are the differences between cheap generators and high dollar generators...

Roy Ken

i recently posted about my new predator generator failing a UPS test, which bothered me. it was confirmed that the Hertz was the problem. as the voltage and the sine wave are perfect. but i was still bothered.

that said after seeing the oscilloscope above for the honda 2000, i have to say i am very relieved. my HF predator actually appears better.I do not see light flicker at all on the HF pred.

i also own a ELM3000, which was one of the original clone generators on this forum, with the largest post count i have seen.

that said that generator had tons of hours on it and never burned anything out. it also, which is hilarious, worked better with my ups's which blows my mind.

in regards to the voltage jumping around. i have to say i have never seen this with either generator or a coleman power mate.none of my meters are RMS. i generally use 3 at one time. the voltage never really moves more then 3-5 volts either way. and settles even better with a load on it.

i have never seen it jump 20v all over the place. i'd be curious to see a sine wave for one. all of mine are below. my elim is quite scary looking, but i have never burned a thing out on it. my predator when under load will actually hold to a 1-2 hertz variance and +/- 1 volt

Could not resist. Spent a good amount of my career testing, repairing, calibrating the Tek 475 scope and others. Sorry to hijack the thread, carry on.

actually it appears roys photo's are wrong, that is not a Honda sine wave on the top, not sure. link below has a sine wave capture of a honda

Clicky

RoyB wrote:
Looking at these waveform using an oscilloscope will scare you big time...

My Honda high dollar 2KW EU2000i 120VAC WAVEFORM looks like this


Looking on google of champion generator waveforms shows a whole different waveform being generated.





If the waveforms are not pure then the AC VOLTAGE will show up on the AC DIGITAL VOLTMETERs bouncing all over the place. These type of WAVEFORMS usually clears up somewhat when being more loaded down.

Any SQUARE WAVE components showing up in the envelope is what really is bad for AC appliances... Something that looks like this may do harm to AC APPLIANCES


All WAVEFORMs from GOOGLE Search

These are the differences between cheap generators and high dollar generators...

Roy Ken

i recently posted about my new predator generator failing a UPS test, which bothered me. it was confirmed that the Hertz was the problem. as the voltage and the sine wave are perfect. but i was still bothered.

that said after seeing the oscilloscope above for the honda 2000, i have to say i am very relieved. my HF predator actually appears better.I do not see light flicker at all on the HF pred.

i also own a ELM3000, which was one of the original clone generators on this forum, with the largest post count i have seen.

that said that generator had tons of hours on it and never burned anything out. it also, which is hilarious, worked better with my ups's which blows my mind.

in regards to the voltage jumping around. i have to say i have never seen this with either generator or a coleman power mate.none of my meters are RMS. i generally use 3 at one time. the voltage never really moves more then 3-5 volts either way. and settles even better with a load on it.

i have never seen it jump 20v all over the place. i'd be curious to see a sine wave for one. all of mine are below. my elim is quite scary looking, but i have never burned a thing out on it. my predator when under load will actually hold to a 1-2 hertz variance and +/- 1 volt

RoyB wrote:
Looking at these waveform using an oscilloscope will scare you big time...

My Honda high dollar 2KW EU2000i 120VAC WAVEFORM looks like this


Looking on google of champion generator waveforms shows a whole different waveform being generated.





If the waveforms are not pure then the AC VOLTAGE will show up on the AC DIGITAL VOLTMETERs bouncing all over the place. These type of WAVEFORMS usually clears up somewhat when being more loaded down.

Any SQUARE WAVE components showing up in the envelope is what really is bad for AC appliances... Something that looks like this may do harm to AC APPLIANCES


All WAVEFORMs from GOOGLE Search

These are the differences between cheap generators and high dollar generators...

Roy Ken

:R

If it is POSTED on the internet is MUST BE RIGHT (they can't post wrong or incorrect info)?

Anyone can easily mess with waveforms or say the waveforms came from brand X Y OR Z..

GOOGLE PIX is as "trustworthy as "WIKI"..

Am I ever glad I bit the bullet and paid almost twice as much for a KATO generator for the Kubota. With the H9000 Delco regulator, and Woodward governor. No load to full load Hz 59.9 Hz to 60.0 Hz. 119.70 vac to 120.66 vac

A person has to be careful with alternating current and digital sampling rate of meters. RoyB's excellent illustrations visually portray things that no voltmeter can ever show. A meter may say "Ooooooo 120 volts!" A motor may not agree - to the point of catching fire.

Whenever a frisbee grade generator is connected to an electric motor CHECK MOTOR TEMPERATURE WITH YOUR HAND before assuming it's a great marriage. Resistance heating loads the generator, but an electric motor checks the waveform in a brutal primitive way. I have a Marathon 5 HP liquid transfer pump and the KATO waveform on the scope ends up looking better than CFE power during motor startup.

A rational way to guesstimate the quality of a generator head is weight. Actually the quantity of copper in the windings. A smaller generator with lots of wire but similar potential will almost always offer better waveform and loading characteristics, than an el cheapo.

Remember, an ISOLATION TRANSFORMER will clean up a wave form a lot.

Some of the garbage I have run into looks like a dental chart from a Great White...

In the 3000w genset thread they had the scope from the newer 120v only Champion 3500/4000. It was a lot cleaner than those are, nearly PSW like.

I bought this genny principally for emergency power at our Fishcamp. Mostly to run the 120V 11AMP 1HP well and a 120V 20Gal single element 16.6 AMP water heater. Even with the dirty sine wave and fluctuation they both should be OK. The owners manual suggests a APC style battery supply or power conditioner for "Delicate" stuff. I guess I'll get another one of these http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AC215 to run the fridge, TV's, stereo and Sat receiver. My buddy is in the music biz and I can snag another one for the fishcamp at his cost.

Looking at these waveform using an oscilloscope will scare you big time...

My Honda high dollar 2KW EU2000i 120VAC WAVEFORM looks like this


Looking on google of champion generator waveforms shows a whole different waveform being generated.





If the waveforms are not pure then the AC VOLTAGE will show up on the AC DIGITAL VOLTMETERs bouncing all over the place. These type of WAVEFORMS usually clears up somewhat when being more loaded down.

Any SQUARE WAVE components showing up in the envelope is what really is bad for AC appliances... Something that looks like this may do harm to AC APPLIANCES


All WAVEFORMs from GOOGLE Search

These are the differences between cheap generators and high dollar generators...

Roy Ken

nowgrn4 wrote:
I snagged a Champion Mod. #46598 3500/4000 genny from TS for $250 on black Friday. With a Craftsman digital meter my voltage varies 12-13 volts every second or so. It will read 113,118,122,126 all in around a seconds time. It does the exact same thing on each 120volt leg when switched over to 240volts or the 30 amp RV plug or regular 120volt plug. The analog meter on the genny stays rock solid on 120 or 240volts when switched.

This is over a 10% fluctuation. I'm afraid to plug anything into it.

Ideas?

Your craftsman meter digital meter is most likely not a true RMS type of meter and the analog to digital IC inside the meter is seeing fluctuations in frequency, waveform along with any small fluctuations in voltage.. This is creating large swings in voltage errors reported on the screen.

I would recommend trying an analog meter or a better quality digital meter which is true RMS.

Just keep in mind, a non inverter generator WILL have some voltage, frequency and even waveform distortion. In most respects not much worse than the noise which is on the utility lines.

For the most part even with 10% voltage fluctuations that is not really all that far off the mark for a generator. Equipment designed for 120V use typically will operate perfectly fine from 108V-135V without any harm.. Most manufacturers will give a acceptable voltage range of your electrical items.