Converters and generators

[ZZSPIRAL1]

I have a WFCO Ultra III (WF-8955) converter that requires 950W of input. I'm surprised it takes that much power to run, but maybe I'm missing something. Apparantly a 1000W generator won't provide enough power, which makes sense, because they're rated 900W. I have a Yamaha 2000W generator, but I like the idea of using a 1000W generator, because they're nearly 20 pounds lighter, less DBA and run longer on a tank.

I understand the converter can be switched out for one that requires less power. What's your recommendation, and what would you expect to pay someone to switch it out? What's the downside of a smaller converter?

I'm a DIY type, but when it comes to power I run the other way.


Thank you.

[pnichols]

Or ..... the OP can indeed pick up a 1000W genny and replace their non-power-factor-corrected converter/charger with a power-factor-corrected converter/charger.

There's a real place in the RV world for the more efficient PF corrected battery charging, but it's not talked about much - instead most RV campers just buy a bigger generator.

Here's a neat little PF corrected multi-stage charger that should easily work at full power from a quiet 1000W genny:

http://www.bestconverter.com/804-1240-02-Truecharge2-40-Amp_p_315.html

Or maybe just the right 1000W genny would even run this slightly higher amperage charger at full power for even faster charging:

http://www.bestconverter.com/804-1260-02-Truecharge2-60-Amp_p_408.html

Both of the above RV chargers are also temperature compensated, so in moderate to warm weather their voltages are folded back and hence load any given small generator a bit less.

[NinerBikes]

smkettner wrote:
The next larger size IOTA is 45 amps and is well known to overload a 1000va generator. The PD45 seems to work because the amps sag a bit before the overload happens.

Another good replacement would be the 35 amp PowerMax MBA that should be a direct bolt in WFCO replacement.

PD is also fine to 45 amps and maybe larger if you care to fiddle with the pendent. 9140 with wizard would have no issues with a 1000va gen.

This is an old zombie thread BTW.

Still as relevant today as the day it was started... though, as long as WFCO 8955's keep on getting stuffed in Travel Trailers that don't deliver bulk charging rates like they are supposed to, or turn off of bulk mode charging rate once voltage is reached for taper charge.

I'd like my recharging procedure to be down to 1 hour on the EU1000i in the morning at bulk rate or less, starting at 7am to catch up from the night before in bulk charge, and let the 120 watt portable solar do the rest from 8:30 to 9 AM on until I get back from fishing later in the day. Then another hour on the EU1000I last hour before calling it a night with some reading in bed. LED's will help cut back on my watts sucked on the battery. That's the current goal, the goal posts could move after I see how what I have now works. Still in testing mode.

[time2roll]

The next larger size IOTA is 45 amps and is well known to overload a 1000va generator. The PD45 seems to work because the amps sag a bit before the overload happens.

Another good replacement would be the 35 amp PowerMax MBA that should be a direct bolt in WFCO replacement.

PD is also fine to 45 amps and maybe larger if you care to fiddle with the pendent. 9140 with wizard would have no issues with a 1000va gen.

This is an old zombie thread BTW.

[RJsfishin]

smkettner wrote:
I recommend a 30 amp IOTA with the 1000w Yamaha.

Just connect same as the 8955 removed. Or pay 1 hour max.

http://www.bestconverter.com/DLS-30-30-Amp-Power-Converter-wIQ4_p_335.html

Is the 1000 Yammie underpowered that you recommend only a 30 amp converter ? Why not run a 45 amp converter ?? If a Yammie is too sick to run it, get the Honda !

[RJsfishin]

BFL13 wrote:
RJ it turns on my definition of "forever" I did not say a 45a charger would not run on the 1000w Honda. The OP had a 55a.

How long forever lasts depends on how big the bank is in AH and how low it starts at on the recharge and how high you want to get it to.

My PD 45 will charge faster than the OPs 55 amp WFCO that never sees 14 volts. So I didn't know why you would say that.

I used to charge w/ a PD55 amp, and I don't notice the difference.

But, at any rate, the Honda 1000 will charge batteries plenty fast on 45 amps. The 1000 is smaller and lighter, and quieter once the amperage get down to 30 amps and less.

[JiminDenver]

I'm pretty sure that's the converter we have, I was so happy to turn it off. Not only is it a piece, listening to a generator run for hours blows. (even a quiet one)

Just my opinion but if you get the sun and are willing to invest in a 100w panel and controller, Give your system some teeth and get that extra panel and slightly larger controller now.

[BFL13]

RJ it turns on my definition of "forever" I did not say a 45a charger would not run on the 1000w Honda. The OP had a 55a.

How long forever lasts depends on how big the bank is in AH and how low it starts at on the recharge and how high you want to get it to.

[RJsfishin]

BFL13 wrote:
The converter has a power factor of about 0.7, so that 950w input will pull about 1357VA from the gen continuous. That is nearly the continuous rating of the "2000w" gen.

If you get a small enough (low amp instead of 55amp) charger to run on the "1000w" gen, the amps will be so low it will take forever to charge the battery bank.

IMO don't even think about getting a 1000w gen for running a battery charger. It will have to run so long to get the batteries up, you might as well just stay on the gen all day and not run the batteries down in the first place 🙂

What a bunch of bull ! Usually BLF knows what hes talking about.

I've posted it a hunerd times, My PD 9245 charges at 45 amps (on ammeter) just fine on my Honda 1000 ! Blf knows that, and so does skmetter.

[MrWizard]

use the bigger generator
fuel usage is consummate with the amount of power created

a 900w running at say 750 uses almost identical gas , as the 2000w running a 750 watt load, you would be surprised how little the difference is

i would use the 2000 with the 55amp converter for shorter running times, instead of the 1000 with a 30amp converter and more hours of run/charge time

ZZSPIRAL1 wrote:
I have a WFCO Ultra III (WF-8955) converter that requires 950W of input. I'm surprised it takes that much power to run, but maybe I'm missing something. Apparantly a 1000W generator won't provide enough power, which makes sense, because they're rated 900W. I have a Yamaha 2000W generator, but I like the idea of using a 1000W generator, because they're nearly 20 pounds lighter, less DBA and run longer on a tank.

I understand the converter can be switched out for one that requires less power. What's your recommendation, and what would you expect to pay someone to switch it out? What's the downside of a smaller converter?

I'm a DIY type, but when it comes to power I run the other way.


Thank you.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

By chance do you know how many watts are required to run this converter? http://www.bestconverter.com/DLS-30-30-Amp-Power-Converter-wIQ4_p_335.html

This is unfortunately the wrong question. Your generator is rated in VA, so you need to ask what the VA draw of the converter is. For a non-power factor corrected converter (most of them) you can approximate the VA requirement by multiplying the output amps by the boost voltage, dividing by the efficiency (typically 80%)and dividing by the power factor (typically 0.7). For a 30 amp converter that's 30*14.4/0.8/0.7 = 771 VA. The DLS-30 manual states the maximum draw in VA as 864 (they specify a power factor of 0.65). This is the first time I've seen a converter manufacturer specify the draw in VA. Kudos to Iota for that. Now if we can only get the generator manufacturers say they really mean VA when they say watts we can have easier apples-to-apples power comparisons.

[wa8yxm]

The converter draws less power as the batteries charge.

However a more efficient converter or a smaller one, both methods will help.

Also Yahama makes (or at least used to make) a 1200 watt peak inverter generator, it puts out a true kilowatt.

[NinerBikes]

ZZSPIRAL1 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. I've been gone a while. I always enjoy smkettner's input. He seems to know a lot. Many of you do. To answer one question, I haven't dry camped enough to know how long it takes to charge the batteries, and I just recently purchased a battery meter, so we'll see. Smkettner is right, I prefer the 1000w, if I can get away with it. Seems the converter he recommends, in addition to a 100 W panel might do the trick. But I see some other solid recommendations as well.

I know, I'll get the converter, the panel and a 1000w generator and try it. I can keep the 2000w just in case. Heck, it's only money...............Ha!.

By chance do you know how many watts are required to run this converter? http://www.bestconverter.com/DLS-30-30-Amp-Power-Converter-wIQ4_p_335.html

This is currently probably the best entry price controllers and panel kit set going. Might be worth your time and effort.

120 watt portable folding panels

I already own the Whatda F* Charger Org 8955 fifty five watt model in my travel trailer, and ran the Honda Eu1000i at 9500 feet for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the evening for 10 days up in Breckenridge this summer. That will pretty much stay on top of keeping my single Group 24 charged up. I fire the genny up in the morning, in eco mode, let it waram up, then plug in the 15-30 amp pigtail in. The little Honda will grunt a bit for 5 to 15 minutes, but it gets back to regular eco mode almost always inside of 30 minutes. No idea what the amp out put is during that time, or what the battery is getting, but warming up the motor first is damn important on these Honda's before putting them under a good charging load, got to get the piston/bore tolerances warmed up and tight before putting that little motor to work hard.

I too prefer the EU1000i, but have a couple of 2000's too, for when I might want to run the A/C or the microwave. Sometimes it's nice to do a TV dinner so I have more time to tie some flies for fishing the next day.

I am in experiment mode with the 120W folding panel now... one thing for certain, that panel, with pulse charging, will really refresh your battery... my 10 month old WalMart special 24 DC seems to hold more charge now than it did when new? I know it sounds crazy, but I am certain that it's not my imagination. Of course I know more about proper battery charging now than I did when I first bought my travel trailer last December. May even breakdown, and chuck the stock PWM controller on the panel and get the good stuff, like a Morningstar PWM 12v 10 amp job to replace the Chinesium on there, but on the other hand, if it works, don't fix it.

Ordered some LED's for the panel lights the T-10's up top, and a volt amp meter too for RC's, trying to get consumption down and keep battery charge up... for boon docking next summer. Learning all this has been fun, an exercise in efficiency.

[time2roll]

ZZSPIRAL1 wrote:
By chance do you know how many watts are required to run this converter? http://www.bestconverter.com/DLS-30-30-Amp-Power-Converter-wIQ4_p_335.html

Says 7 amps max at a low 108 volts. That would be 756w but there needs to be more apparent power available. AFAIK the Honda 1000 should run the 30a IOTA although it will give the Honda a good run on a low battery. Either way it will charge faster than the 55a WFCO stuck at 13.6 volts.

[mena661]

ZZSPIRAL1 wrote:
To answer one question, I haven't dry camped enough to know how long it takes to charge the batteries, and I just recently purchased a battery meter, so we'll see.

We have and it will take a few hours to charge using a 30 amp charger especially when you'll also be using stuff at the same time (meaning you won't get 30 amps of charging). The 100W panel will help but it really is about two light bulbs worth of charge. 200W is the minimum IMO for boondocking. You really might as well run off the 1000W and don't bother with the solar panel. I took a different approach and spent generator money on more batteries so I don't have to recharge at all until I get home.

[Kpackpackkelley]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Variac + cheap transformer chargers = el maximum possible from small genset

One charger not enough? Add a second. They're cheap

Oops just a bit too much load for the 1,000 watt genset.

Dial back the variac. Dial it back at high altitude

Dial it forward to get those chargers* to climb to 18 amps each when needed.

Desulfate, top charge, you name it.

*Specifically will not work with high frequency chargers. Must be transformer type.


DIALS! THE OTHER WHITE MEAT




Personally I would not get carried away by cranking the variac up and forcing the charger into spontaneous combustion. What the charger will do at home should be what it'll do on a big-enough genset. Dial it in. If the gen gags, dial it back.

How do these hook up I read up a little on the site for them but don't really understand where they Ty in