Cpap and camping

[rightlaneonly]

I know this subject has been discussed here before but honestly most of this is over my head so I'm looking for a simplistic answer if that's even possible. DW has a Phillips IP22 Cpap. 12v 6.6 a. Uses it at home plugged into house current (110). We want to take it camping but not sure how it will work on an inverter. I have two. One is an Xpower Micro Inverter 400 watt and the other is a Vector VECO62 700 watt. either one would be plugged into a 12 volt outlet in the trailer. Trailer uses one group 27 deep cycle battery. Now what I want/need to know in layman's terms, will either one of these work and will the battery last through the night. I can recharge during the day with either a solar panel or a generator. I'm not good at all with electricity and the technical stuff just boggles my mind. With that said please be gentle and offer what you can in simple terms.
Greatly appreciate your input.
Lee.

[rickst29]

ktmrfs wrote:

... for the resmed you can buy a complete ready to use 12-24 DC to DC converter either from resmed, or from battery power solutions. BPS converter when I bought it was just over $50. works on the airsense 9 or airsense 10. comes complete with the correct plug.

The Resmed price is very high, but the BPS costs only $68 (Amazon). 🙂 It is certainly more compact and convenient than build-your-own. If I'd seen it, I would have bought it.

[Mel_B_]

JimK-NY wrote:
I have my own tales of incompetence and ignorance by sleep study physicians. I had a sleep study immediately after seeing a dentist. I was uncomfortable all night and could not sleep. Finally I dozed off for a few minutes. The study should have been repeated. Instead the physician was elated since I had an AHI of 7. Anything above 5 qualifies for a CPAP. Of course, I also had no snoring, no apnea and O2 levels that were perfectly normal. I visited another specialist physician to have the results reviewed. He decided I had a severe breathing disorder that needed to be looked at by a Pulmonologist. The Pulmonologist told me the second expert did not know what he was talking about and nothing was wrong. Another physician told my wife, that since I had shallow breathing, I might die in my sleep. She was greatly alarmed and woke me up frequently during the night. Of course, months later that ignorant theory was debunked. By then I had bruised ribs. Finally a year later, a second sleep study was done with a home testing unit. The results were as close to perfect as possible. During the process I did a lot of research trying to understand sleep apnea and other related disorders. The whole field is more black magic than science. Clearly there are individuals with severe levels of sleep apnea who really can benefit from a CPAP. Then there are countless others like myself who are prescribed a CPAP needlessly.

While this may be true, SLEEP APNEA is nothing to fool around with. A sleep doctor is just like any other DR. They have rules and theres good ones and bad ones. But Apnea is a very deadly thing that should not be taken lightly. I've had six sleep studies in the last 24 years. When my grandson was 4 years old he had sleep apnea so bad that they removed his tonsels and his annodes (FORGIVE THE SPELLING) were removed . His father, my son is so stuborn that he won't get checked. But I know how bad he has it, and I'm scared he won't wake up one day. All I'm saying is it does seem like sleep apnea has become the hot thing with Dr,'s the last 20 years. You have a right to a second opinion.
Mel

[JimK-NY]

I have my own tales of incompetence and ignorance by sleep study physicians. I had a sleep study immediately after seeing a dentist. I was uncomfortable all night and could not sleep. Finally I dozed off for a few minutes. The study should have been repeated. Instead the physician was elated since I had an AHI of 7. Anything above 5 qualifies for a CPAP. Of course, I also had no snoring, no apnea and O2 levels that were perfectly normal. I visited another specialist physician to have the results reviewed. He decided I had a severe breathing disorder that needed to be looked at by a Pulmonologist. The Pulmonologist told me the second expert did not know what he was talking about and nothing was wrong. Another physician told my wife, that since I had shallow breathing, I might die in my sleep. She was greatly alarmed and woke me up frequently during the night. Of course, months later that ignorant theory was debunked. By then I had bruised ribs. Finally a year later, a second sleep study was done with a home testing unit. The results were as close to perfect as possible. During the process I did a lot of research trying to understand sleep apnea and other related disorders. The whole field is more black magic than science. Clearly there are individuals with severe levels of sleep apnea who really can benefit from a CPAP. Then there are countless others like myself who are prescribed a CPAP needlessly.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

" It seems the entire sleep therapy industry is really just a sham. Respironics builds the test equipment, does the analysis and recommends Respironics CPAP machines. Everyone is happy, everyone gets paid and the providers can continue to charge $50 for a dollars worth of plastic. I wonder if anyone has a sleep study and does not receive a recommendation for a CPAP"

My experience has been my therapists were woefully educated. Low O2 levels and triggered "wake up" brain signals can and do cause life threatening medical conditions. The Pakistani therapist insisted I needed an O2 concentrator - a device that ends dreaming of boondocking, forever. 520 watts 8 hours a day.

My sleep supplier protested and finally fitted me with a recording pulse oximeter after I spent two years down here with an added FORTY FIVE DOLLAR PER MONTH electric bill. I paid a Mexican cardiologist the eqvt of one hundred dollars to sit beside my bed with an eletrocardiogram running but not recording.

The Pakastani educated (Paid for by MediCare) failed to tell me that sleeping on my back negated one hundred percent of any benefit that positive pressure breathing assistance provided regardless of pressure setting - Negated 100% of any benefit of the oxygen concentrator. Dr. Gutierrez also definitively proved I have Central Sleep Apnea.

Back for another sleep study with Doctor Alqueda. After he mumbled platitudes in the morning I nailed his ass to the office wall. I was a most unpleasant patient. Point after point I detailed his fraudulent incompetence. Patients in the waiting room had shocked expressions on their face as I stormed out.

Wasn't done. I reported his transgressions to the Feds and to the State of California Medical Board. In detail. Result? The Sleep Study Center at Doctor's Medical Center in El Sobrante, CA. went out of business and doctor Imbecile was disbarred.

This point being...

Health issues can So Easily bar someone from boondocking RVing. If those issues involve positive pressure airway breathing - CPAP, BiPAP, O2 concentrator...

And a "decision" imperils your ability to RV...
Get a second opinion. From a different facility.

Secondly TRUST NO ONE. EVER! Recording pulse oximeters are no longer expensive these days. Look on eBay. If the result of the pulse oximeter disagrees with a sleep study Rx - the machine, the setting and any specific instructions it's time to visit another Sleep Study specialist.

Like Dr. Alqueda, there are too many QUACKS in this discipline, and a misdiagnosis can mean abandoning RV'ing as a diversion. I missed two years of RVing because of this and when I dumped on the "play dokter" I made my unhappiness crystal clear.

Done. Hope this helps someone.

[ktmrfs]

rickst29 wrote:
You guys are in luck - me and the DW own both of the machines, Respironics and Resmed. And I'm pretty capable with electric things. 😉

- - - The efficiency issue - - -
Using a 12V regulator (Phillips "Respironics") or 24V converter (Resmed "Airsense") creates a big advantage over using the "120V Brick" with an Inverter: Efficiency!

With a typical "cheapo" Inverter, you will only get about 70% "output power" on 120V, in comparison to the 12VDC input power consumed. Following that power loss, the brick itself is only about 85% efficient. About 40% of your Trailer battery power gets wasted (85% times 70% = 59.5% efficient). In other words, you consume 40% more battery capacity to run the Inverter --> Power Brick Combination. That's why Inverters have fans on them: they're inefficient, creating a lot of waste heat.

In contrast, the DC-to-DC power supplies described here are about 93% efficient. No fans, maybe just a few small air holes. (My own Respironics power supply/regulator doesn't have any holes and stays cool - but I built it differently from my recommendation. It uses a "salvage" Vicor regulator module, list price > $200.)

- - - Respironics - - -
Running Respironcs "12V" from the 12V electrical system is fairly easy, and operates at 92-100% efficiency. You just need a much better plug and socket (instead of the "cigarette lighter" connectors). I use 15A twist locks, type ML1. They have the advantage of not pulling out when the sleeper rolls over. 😉

But you should probably use a Voltage Regulator as well. I did. (Trailer power varies from 11.9V up to 14.4V, depending on both the State-of-Charge and the operating mode of any active Converter/Charger device.) The CPAP machine doesn't face that much variance when running through the at-home "Brick"cConverter, and I feel that you should improve the regulation to meet or exceed the quality of the 120VAC Brick converter.

I'll SWAG this one to be suitable, although the seller's description doesn't make sense: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-DC-8V-40V-To-DC-12V-10A-120W-Step-Down-Converter-Power-Regulator-.... (He says that it's "Step Down" Buck Converter, but I note that the Voltage Specification describes both "Boost" operation, 8-12V, and "Buck" operation, 13V-40V. You DO need both functions.)

Worst case - If this device isn't actually a dual function converter/regulator, you can use separate "Boost" and "Buck" Converters back to back, within your power supply project box: The first unit does "Boost" conversion to 24V (same as the Resmed converter/regulator), and the second unit does "Buck Conversion" back to regulated 12V. Efficiency will be a bit less, wasting 8-15% of the input power.

- - - Resmed - - -
This one is a lot more complicated than you might expect: Resmed uses a three-pin connector, with a specific requirement for Voltage and Resistance on the tiny pin "in the middle". Your first step, therefore, is to buy a cheap Resmed "Airsense-Compatible" 120VAC power supply from EBay, Amazon, or elsewhere: You're going to remove and use the output cord, throwing the rest of the power brick away.

You need 3 other parts (and a "project box" to hold the parts): A Regulating Boost Converter: 9V-12V in, 24V out, at least 120W (so it runs at half power or less, staying cool). We will use this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-DC-12V-to-24V-10A-240W-Step-up-DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-Boost-in...

You also need a tiny step-down converter to create a 3.3V supply on Resmed's weird test wire. If you want to do surface-mount on a board, you can buy an individual chip to perform this job. I chose a cheap "tunable" Buck Converter with an input/output Voltage Display built-in (to help with tuning it properly), this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BUCK-STEP-DOWN-LM2596-POWER-CONVERTER-MODULE-DC-4-0-40-TO-1-3-37V-VOLTME...

+12V comes into the Converter from your high-current plug, creating 24V output. The 24V output goes into a "Y", with a "thicker" wire going into the +24V wire of the Resmed cord, and a thin +24V wire going into the small Buck Converter. Buck Converter Output must be routed through a 2.7K Ohm resistor, and then into the Resmed Sensor wire. (For example, the one I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-7K-Ohm-2w-2-Watts-1-Tolerance-Metal-Film-Resistor-10-Pieces/282286525128 The 24V ground is wired to the Resmed ground wire, and the 12V input ground wire goes back to your high-current plug.

As with Phillips/Respironics, this one should operate around 93% efficient, and it won't require require a fan. I'm waiting on parts and haven't actually built it yet, but I have high confidence that it will work great.

or for the resmed you can buy a complete ready to use 12-24 DC to DC converter either from resmed, or from battery power solutions. BPS converter when I bought it was just over $50. works on the airsense 9 or airsense 10. comes complete with the correct plug.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Excellent! Someone who works with this stuff Thank You!

[rickst29]

You guys are in luck - me and the DW own both of the machines, Respironics and Resmed. And I'm pretty capable with electric things. 😉

- - - The efficiency issue - - -
Using a 12V regulator (Phillips "Respironics") or 24V converter (Resmed "Airsense") creates a big advantage over using the "120V Brick" with an Inverter: Efficiency!

With a typical "cheapo" Inverter, you will only get about 70% "output power" on 120V, in comparison to the 12VDC input power consumed. Following that power loss, the brick itself is only about 85% efficient. About 40% of your Trailer battery power gets wasted (85% times 70% = 59.5% efficient). In other words, you consume 40% more battery capacity to run the Inverter --> Power Brick Combination. That's why Inverters have fans on them: they're inefficient, creating a lot of waste heat.

In contrast, the DC-to-DC power supplies described here are about 93% efficient. No fans, maybe just a few small air holes. (My own Respironics power supply/regulator doesn't have any holes and stays cool - but I built it differently from my recommendation. It uses a "salvage" Vicor regulator module, list price > $200.)

- - - Respironics - - -
Running Respironcs "12V" from the 12V electrical system is fairly easy, and operates at 92-100% efficiency. You just need a much better plug and socket (instead of the "cigarette lighter" connectors). I use 15A twist locks, type ML1. They have the advantage of not pulling out when the sleeper rolls over. 😉

But you should probably use a Voltage Regulator as well. I did. (Trailer power varies from 11.9V up to 14.4V, depending on both the State-of-Charge and the operating mode of any active Converter/Charger device.) The CPAP machine doesn't face that much variance when running through the at-home "Brick"cConverter, and I feel that you should improve the regulation to meet or exceed the quality of the 120VAC Brick converter.

I'll SWAG this one to be suitable, although the seller's description doesn't make sense: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-DC-8V-40V-To-DC-12V-10A-120W-Step-Down-Converter-Power-Regulator-.... (He says that it's "Step Down" Buck Converter, but I note that the Voltage Specification describes both "Boost" operation, 8-12V, and "Buck" operation, 13V-40V. You DO need both functions.)

Worst case - If this device isn't actually a dual function converter/regulator, you can use separate "Boost" and "Buck" Converters back to back, within your power supply project box: The first unit does "Boost" conversion to 24V (same as the Resmed converter/regulator), and the second unit does "Buck Conversion" back to regulated 12V. Efficiency will be a bit less, wasting 8-15% of the input power.

- - - Resmed - - -
This one is a lot more complicated than you might expect: Resmed uses a three-pin connector, with a specific requirement for Voltage and Resistance on the tiny pin "in the middle". Your first step, therefore, is to buy a cheap Resmed "Airsense-Compatible" 120VAC power supply from EBay, Amazon, or elsewhere: You're going to remove and use the output cord, throwing the rest of the power brick away.

You need 3 other parts (and a "project box" to hold the parts): A Regulating Boost Converter: 9V-12V in, 24V out, at least 120W (so it runs at half power or less, staying cool). We will use this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-DC-12V-to-24V-10A-240W-Step-up-DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-Boost-in...

You also need a tiny step-down converter to create a 3.3V supply on Resmed's weird test wire. If you want to do surface-mount on a board, you can buy an individual chip to perform this job. I chose a cheap "tunable" Buck Converter with an input/output Voltage Display built-in (to help with tuning it properly), this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BUCK-STEP-DOWN-LM2596-POWER-CONVERTER-MODULE-DC-4-0-40-TO-1-3-37V-VOLTME...

+12V comes into the Converter from your high-current plug, creating 24V output. The 24V output goes into a "Y", with a "thicker" wire going into the +24V wire of the Resmed cord, and a thin +24V wire going into the small Buck Converter. Buck Converter Output must be routed through a 2.7K Ohm resistor, and then into the Resmed Sensor wire. (For example, the one I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-7K-Ohm-2w-2-Watts-1-Tolerance-Metal-Film-Resistor-10-Pieces/282286525128 The 24V ground is wired to the Resmed ground wire, and the 12V input ground wire goes back to your high-current plug.

As with Phillips/Respironics, this one should operate around 93% efficient, and it won't require require a fan. I'm waiting on parts and haven't actually built it yet, but I have high confidence that it will work great.

[Sam_Spade]

JimK-NY wrote:

It seems the entire sleep therapy industry is really just a sham.

I wonder if anyone has a sleep study and does not receive a recommendation for a CPAP.

I kind of have that feeling too.

I think the experts say that something like less than 1 person in 5 has "real" sleep apnea......yet 100% of the people I know who had the test ended up "needing" one.

[Sam_Spade]

Winnipeg wrote:
I used my CPAP as a good excuse to buy a Yamaha 1000 watt inverter.

Just to be clear, you are referring to an inverter type generator, right ?

A real inverter can't be used to charge the batteries......because it's input comes FROM the batteries.

[JimK-NY]

Some of us do not sleep. We hibernate. Body temp drops to about 95 degrees, heart rate way under 50, and respiration becomes very shallow, very slow, with long periods without any breathing. Sleep therapists have no idea. One even decided I needed a CPAP. All that did was annoy me and without any snoring or apnea was useless.

It seems the entire sleep therapy industry is really just a sham. Respironics builds the test equipment, does the analysis and recommends Respironics CPAP machines. Everyone is happy, everyone gets paid and the providers can continue to charge $50 for a dollars worth of plastic. I wonder if anyone has a sleep study and does not receive a recommendation for a CPAP.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

ktmrfs wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Even the $4,000.00 Respironics Dream Machine?

no, the respironics weren't a dream machine, resmed is the airsense and I love it.

But, from my experience, it's like so many things, use what works best for YOU.

the airsense 10 is working great for me, so I'm willing to accomidate the 24V supply wierdness.

And here I get stuck with the Checker Cab, of BiPAPs.
Got gnus for them - this sleep study I demand a copy of the respiratory and O2 record. One does not spend days in a hospital with nurses waking them and demanding "Breathe! Our alarms keep going off" I have known for years I have Central Sleep Apnea (Complex too). The University of Islamabad graduate (no joke) first sleep doctor stuttered and stammered when I confronted him with this. I may end up with a machine worth more than the rest of my total net worth. A mandatory 24 volt machine means major changes to my power system.

Nyet Nein, Non, No, GFY, it all means the same thing and OK ain't one of them...

[Winnipeg]

I used my CPAP as a good excuse to buy a Yamaha 1000 watt inverter. They are so cool (Honda ones are just as great). I start it in the evening and it runs all night providing 110v to run my CPAP, keep the fridge cold and top off the batteries.

Those little guys are so quiet, you cannot hear them unless they are near an open window. We lock ours to the tow'ed (toad?).

[Stefonius]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
If my insurance tried to pawn off a 24 volt machine on me, my response would be simple the sole use of a two-letter word.

Would that word be "OK"?

[ktmrfs]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Even the $4,000.00 Respironics Dream Machine?

no, the respironics weren't a dream machine, resmed is the airsense and I love it.

But, from my experience, it's like so many things, use what works best for YOU.

the airsense 10 is working great for me, so I'm willing to accomidate the 24V supply wierdness.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Even the $4,000.00 Respironics Dream Machine?