Disappointed in Disc Brakes

[lenr]

I admit, I choose that topic just to get your attention. It’s the actuator and its integration with the brake controller that leaves me disappointed. I’m very interested in hearing others’ experiences.

We had Kodiak disc brakes and a Dexter actuator installed on our new fifth wheel trailer. We’re using the integrated brake controller in our 2012 F-350. The disc brakes work so well (after break in) that I have to turn the gain down to 6.5 (out of 10) to keep the wheels from locking up on hard braking. With the gain turned down the Dexter actuator doesn’t start up until the brake controller is up to 40% on the dash bar graph. Then when it does start it’s into serious braking. So, the result is no help from the trailer on light braking and a big jerk once the brake petal is pressed into medium braking. The whole business is very disappointing, and has me wishing that I had just stuck with drum brakes.
1. Does anyone think that a different actuator would solve the problem? The Titan BrakeRite apparently has a lower start up voltage--but, it still is going to be up in the range a little, probably about 20 or 30% brake.
2. I’ve read that there is a time delay with disc brake actuators. What actuators are the fastest, in your experience? While I may be experiencing this also with the Dexter, the bigger problem seems to be not getting up to the turn on voltage.
3. Installing an after-market controller such as the Prodigy seems to be a catch-all answer. If you have found this to be a solution please explain why you think so, and how it works better.
4. What setups are you perfectly happy with: controller and actuator?
Thanks.

[Planning]

lenr wrote:
I need to figure how to get this fixed less expensive than buying a new truck.

I think that:

1. The Titan Brakerite EH Brake Actuator

in conjunction with the

2. Ford/Chevy Adapter for Titan Brake-Rite EHB Actuators #4846000

and

3. Ensuring well-bled lines and calipers with new fluid.

Here are some pages from my manual (2016):

[lenr]

My truck is 2012 Job 2 Premium Package. It has the larger dash display that came standard with the higher line trucks that year. It has the menu entry: “Settings |Driver Assist | Trailer Brake Mode | Electric or Elec. over Hydraulic”. The issued owner’s manual says it has been verified to work with some Electric over Hydraulic systems—check with your dealer to find out which ones. I’m betting my dealer wouldn’t have a clue. I see nothing in the owner’s manual nor in the display about aggressive settings—it sounds like the aggressive setting might solve the problem, but it doesn’t exist for me. Now I need to figure how to get this fixed less expensive than buying a new truck.

[Planning]

Lynnmor wrote:
I see nothing in your owners manual about a electric over hydraulic setting. Later models have several settings, but not yours unless it has been modified.

He indicated it had the settings: "When I did some Voltage tests setting in the driveway, the two settings did not seem to make any difference.

[Gdetrailer]

Lynnmor wrote:
I see nothing in your owners manual about a electric over hydraulic setting. Later models have several settings, but not yours unless it has been modified.

OP may have a "later" build than the manual, I believe my early 2013 XLT has EOH setting in one of the menus, can't remember seeing it mentioned in my manual either (never needed it since I don't have EOH brakes).

Not ALL features were available in ALL trim levels either.. Confusing and stupid, yeah, but once you get past that, the Ford IBC performs just as good as my old faithful Jordan 2020 (pulled that out of my old 2003 to keep as a backup plan if the IBC gives trouble).

[Lynnmor]

I see nothing in your owners manual about a electric over hydraulic setting. Later models have several settings, but not yours unless it has been modified.

[Gdetrailer]

lenr wrote:
Thanks for the responses--
Update and details: My 2012 XLT does have an Electric Hydraulic setting, and that is what it is set on. It has been my goal from the start to try to make the IBC work because I want trailer braking controlled by how hard I push on the petal. The IBC set to electric has worked fine with drum brakes. The truck is an XLT—don’t know if that affects additional adjustments, but I can find nothing but gain. The advantage of a Prodigy would be that the initial boost could be set such that it turns the pump on and the gain could be set for smooth transition from that point to just below tire lockup. My present setup is ANYTHING but smooth.

One question does seem to be answered—Titan gets the vote. I’m going to research the interface module—maybe it provides different functions beyond proper loading for controllers lacking hydraulic settings. Part of the problem with the Dexter actuator is that it does have a higher turn on voltage, so it doesn’t get rolling until the controller is calling for a good chunk of braking—thus the jerkiness. Maybe the interface helps with that issue.

I believe the Lariat and above trim levels with Productivity screen had additional settings which allowed for a low/med/high output setting..

Sounds like the Dexter actuator may be the culprit if it needs a higher turn on voltage.

Ford IBC like a lot of modern brake controllers use a modulated waveform on the output, basically turns 12V on/off quickly rather than a linear voltage ramp up/down. AKA "PWM" (Pulse Width Modulation) the longer on voltage, the more current is allowed to flow, turn on voltage for shorter time and less current flows.

Sounds like the Dexter controller is not able to deal well with this..

Adding a old brake magnet or resistor may help filter the choppy output so the actuator is able to properly interpret the IBC output (which is the solution for IBCs that do not have EOH setting).

Using a Prodigy just simply MASKS the short coming of the actuator by giving a "boost setting".. But the Prodigy like the Ford IBC also modulates the output voltage (PWM) so it may or may not solve the Dexter actuator problem fully..

[Planning]

lenr wrote:
One more question-> Those of you running the Titan with the Ford adapter, are you leaving the IBC set to electric even if there is an Hydraulic selection available? When I did some Voltage tests setting in the driveway, the two settings did not seem to make any difference. (My owners manual says there is no IBC output reduction for speed when using the manual lever.)

Yes, set to Electric over Hydraulic setting on Ford OEM controller.

Per the Ford manual: "Choose either the electric option for trailers with electromagnetic drum brakes, or the electric over hydraulic option for trailers with these brake systems.

Trailer Brake Effort Setting
The trailer brake controller allows the user to customize how aggressively the trailer brakes engage. The default value is the low setting and is the recommended setting for most trailers. If your trailer's brakes require more initial voltage, or if you prefer more aggressive trailer braking, then select either the medium or the high setting."

Here is the recommended adapter that operates as an interface between the Ford controller and the actuator:



Ford/Chevy Adapter for Titan Brake-Rite EHB Actuators #4846000

[lenr]

One more question-> Those of you running the Titan with the Ford adapter, are you leaving the IBC set to electric even if there is an Hydraulic selection available? When I did some Voltage tests setting in the driveway, the two settings did not seem to make any difference. (My owners manual says there is no IBC output reduction for speed when using the manual lever.)

[lenr]

Thanks for the responses--
Update and details: My 2012 XLT does have an Electric Hydraulic setting, and that is what it is set on. It has been my goal from the start to try to make the IBC work because I want trailer braking controlled by how hard I push on the petal. The IBC set to electric has worked fine with drum brakes. The truck is an XLT—don’t know if that affects additional adjustments, but I can find nothing but gain. The advantage of a Prodigy would be that the initial boost could be set such that it turns the pump on and the gain could be set for smooth transition from that point to just below tire lockup. My present setup is ANYTHING but smooth.

One question does seem to be answered—Titan gets the vote. I’m going to research the interface module—maybe it provides different functions beyond proper loading for controllers lacking hydraulic settings. Part of the problem with the Dexter actuator is that it does have a higher turn on voltage, so it doesn’t get rolling until the controller is calling for a good chunk of braking—thus the jerkiness. Maybe the interface helps with that issue.

[Second_Chance]

eHoefler wrote:
On that year Ford truck, you need an adaptor to use the factory brake contoller for electric/hydralic brakes.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Titan/T4846000.html

X2^^. There is an extra integration module that goes between the truck's IBC and the brake actuator on our model years (same for GMC, too). MOR/ryde installed it when they did our brakes and everything works like a charm. Ignore the comments about aftermarket controllers - your IBC is superior.

Rob

[howardwheeler]

I did not know the 2011 integrated brake controller did not have the electric over hydraulic setting. I had a 2012 before I got my 17. It would seem the adapter from eTrailer would be necessary. The Titan in my research and experience is the best fit for the Kodiak retrofit. Thoroughly pleased with the transformation on my 16,000 lbs trailer. Night and day.

[Lynnmor]

Gdetrailer gave you information on using magnets in the first reply, then you were given a link to an adapter that, I believe, is simply a resistor and will work just like using magnets for a resistor. Whatever you do, do not downgrade to a Prodigy, you want brakes somehow connected to your foot, not a guesswork accelerometer.

[12th_Man_Fan]

eHoefler wrote:
On that year Ford truck, you need an adaptor to use the factory brake contoller for electric/hydralic brakes.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Titan/T4846000.html

Or you can install a ProdigyII. That's what I have and I love it.

[eHoefler]

On that year Ford truck, you need an adaptor to use the factory brake contoller for electric/hydralic brakes.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Titan/T4846000.html

[Planning]

BTW, Eastern Marine has a rocket price on them: https://www.easternmarine.com/brakerite-electric-hydraulic-disc-brake-actuator-4813100